Can someone explain rationally why “not being allowed to participate in school/pro sports” is such a big deal...

By this logic, they should just create separate tranny leagues (an idea I have supported in the past). And if you’re gonna call that “segregation”, then OK, I guess “women’s sports” is fucking jim crow or something lol

it won't be a problem if we just push further with medically transitioning children, the other thing that people are justifiably upset about

It's like the further we go with TRYING to be tolerant and accommodating of trannies, the more we realize that this whole thing simply is not sustainable

Doesn't matter to people out here. Unless you have the chance of getting into the absolute top leagues that undergo live broadcasts and huge events like the NFL or MLB or something then people don't give a shit about them. Leagues for trans people probably already exists, it's just that US sports culture doesn't accept anything except the top 2 biggest ones as actual leagues.

justifiably upset about

There's nothing justified about forcing a child to go through the wrong puberty for them.

Nobody cared about women's sports until males started playing them.
Two things came out of the trannylympics scandal:
1. Women are not and never will be equal to men
2. Natty is obsolete.

justifiably upset about

B8/10. Unless you either believe that some huge percentage of kids getting HRT are confused cis people (a false belief, but at least one that could justify your stance) or you believe that trans people inherently deserve to suffer to protect the lives of even one precious cis person (a contemptible and degenerate idea unworthy of consideration), you can't be serious.

1) Sports are a big deal in American schools. it can mean the difference between getting a scholarship or not.
2) Banning trans women from sports is just a gateway to further erosion of our rights. They can use the reasoning that we have to use the men's bathroom because we have to be on the men's team
3) it outs trans women. Say you are stealth or at least don't advertise that you're trans. Publicly participating on a man's team broadcasts to the world that you're trans.
4) The science is not settled. Even if trans women did have an advantage over cis women it doesn't mean they are level with cis men.

I didn't pay attention to this until it got to the one "sport" I actually know about - skateboarding

One mtf skater got gold in a tournament circuit that she'd been part of for years and then it instantly blew up in the conservative news cycle because of a mad sore loser wanting to speak up about it. The way everyone was talking made it sound like Chris Joslin put on a dress and then went and busted out 20-ft ghettobirds over the whole course to dab on poor helpless women, then you go look at her clips and she skates at exactly the same level as all the other women, even more is she never did particularly well in the competition circuit until the one time she happened to get a win. It's so obviously just transphobia. At the national level it effectively is just barring like a double-digit number of trans girls from having fun with their friends in an extracurricular activity.

Plus the election has just shown that trying to move farther right to get the centrist voter will never work, you have to push back because if you don't they'll just create a strawman narrative for you

Transgender people in sports is the context in which the average person is most likely to believe transgender women have an unfair advantage against cis women and therefore shouldn’t compete together.

It’s something conservatives focus on as a pretext for getting rid of transgender rights altogether. If there can be one context where enough people agree that it’s fair to treat trans women differently than cis women, it’s easier to create more doubt around the whole idea of protecting transgender people as a class.

It has nothing to do with how important in itself it is for transgender people to be able to play sports.

You just can’t compromise with conservatives on transgender issues because their goal is to make it impossible for transgender people to exist openly. They won’t settle for anything less. This is an all or nothing issue for them.

instead of playing sports with your friends at the school you already pay taxes for you have to drive and pay money to go to an "LGBT friendly club (?)" because I get butthurt when a trans girl plays sports with friends

I get wanting to restrict gigahons from contact sports or hrt mandates or whatever but that's so sad to do that to a little girl :/

this.

their goal is to make it impossible for transgender people to exist openly

The people saying "why can't you just give in" know this and are making threads like this with that goal in mind

Unless you either believe that some huge percentage of kids getting HRT are confused cis people (a false belief, but at least one that could justify your stance)

I don't think it's a HUGE percentage but I do think it happens more than you're implying. A few years ago, when there was far less of a public spotlight on the issue, I doubt it really ever happened at all. When the public imagination wasn't so obsessively consumed with trans discourse, if a teenager came out of nowhere saying "I think I'm a boy/girl" I'd believe them. But now the issue is being forced in front of everyone's eyes so goddamn much that I think there are probably a hell of a lot of confused kids questioning their gender when they wouldn't have even given it a second thought in saner times.

I find it hard to take a hardline stance on this issue, because I really do understand the argument in favor of early transition, and I do think there are people who would benefit greatly from it. I think if politics and media stopped using you guys as a wedge issue so goddamn much, things would get a lot clearer.

I probably did come off way too harsh in the post you're responding to. I get irritated by positions that seem exaggerated to me, and denial of legitimate causes for concern. But my actual belief is not that NOBODY should be on puberty blockers or whatever, just that there is justifiable cause for concern over the idea of giving minors these treatments, and that it should be questioned pretty closely.

Noooo you can’t compromise that’s just giving them what they want!

Funny, because clinging to a fringe issue that alienates voters and is nudging them rightwards ALSO kind of sounds like “giving them what they want”.

Transgender people aren't banned from sports, though. They might be banned from playing in the women's league, but that doesn't make them banned from sports. Like I said earlier in this thread, this problem only exists because people only ever give a shit about the top 1% of leagues rather than the modest ones that potentially offer exactly what they want.

It’s really, really fucking simple.

Banning a whole group of people from a perfectly normal activity that everybody is allowed to be a part of is systemic discrimination and is basically always morally indefensible.

The government has no business making policy that effects huge swathes of society based on the whims of a handful of crazy and obsessed people.

If you made a law to ban black people from sports because they’re scary and dangerous and “biologically different” and someone “might get hurt” or “they might win and people would think it’s not fair” etc etc nobody would even consider this to be reasonable for even a minute in the modern world. But that was reality pre civil rights era.

Same thing for trans people. People don’t think about it the same way because we haven’t won this battle yet. We are still a weird out group you are allowed to hate on or discriminate against and there are people invested in keeping it that way.

Dems just tried to drop the issue, it didn't work
They also tried to shift immigration policy much farther right and it didn't work, thinking it would work with trans issues is pretty retarded
You have to fight back, show that the fearmongering is gay and retarded

Because no one believes that they really dropped it. It sure looks like they were hoping if they avoided it for an election season, people might forget, or something. They saw through that. They are not about to forget the last 10 years. Democrats need to outline their stance, not avoid the topic altogether to “play it safe”

Yeah, imagine if every time a black person won a sporting event at literally like, any level, every single right wing media outlet posted their pictures and fanned the flames about how it’s “unfair” and that they took that win from some poor hard working white person.

No context, no details, just mask off hate and disparagement. Huge essays talking about how maybe this is going to be some huge systemic problem and in a few years all the athletes will be black and there will be no opportunities for white athletes. Despite the fact that this is like the first time this person has ever won anything in their life, they present it as if this person is a huge cheater who beats everyone so easy because their blackness makes them super strong and powerful and nobody can even compete!

They do this for like 20 years saying that it’s the “end of sports for white folk” even though a black person is winning like 1/1000 events or some tiny percentage. Oh but it’s a slippery slope and it’s about to get so much worse guys are you scared of them yet?? Can we start to exclude them now? What about this specific black person look, look at his picture. He looks scary right?? Would YOU want to play sports against him?? Why do we even allow this to happen to our poor defenceless and vulnerable white athletes??

And people will be like op “omg guysssss it’s not a big deal why do you even care about sports.”

We don’t. We care about being attacked for literally wanting to do anything in society. There is literally a movement to exclude us from PUBLIC BATHROOMS for fuck sake. And people will say the same thing there. “Omg why do you care just put up with it, it’s not a big deal it doesn’t personally effect me”

I don’t think many trans people actually care, but that doesn’t really matter now does it lol.

puberty cannot be wrong. it's natural.

biggest cope ever

that sounds like a cultural issue not an issue with kids getting hrt on principle though. This sort of thing should be a personal decision that the individual weighs and chooses. Sometimes they choose wrong, for this specific matter, the vast majority choose right. I'm sorry but in my mind that idea of cis kids getting hrt and then just...not getting off it when actual dysphoria creeps up seems insane to me? The idea of some cis kids making a temporary mistake that their own correct puberty would course correct while far far greater trans kids actually get to go through the whole of their correct puberty just seems like a simple matter of creating the greatest happiness and possibility for the greatest number of lives. yeah people can make mistakes and hrt and be one of them but fuck no are trans people not responsible for that and shouldn't be denied an objectively better life because of it.

cancer cannot be wrong. it's natural.

Why does the hip bend in that pic turn me on

that sounds like a cultural issue not an issue with kids getting hrt on principle though

I agree

fuck no are trans people not responsible for that and shouldn't be denied an objectively better life because of it

I agree

If there's a solution I have in mind, it's not any form of a ban on hrt or anything like that, it's just a reduction of the political and cultural fixation on this topic. It should be like it was ten years ago, where gender transition is rarely thought about or discussed except by the small minority who genuinely have gender dysphoria and their parents

We don't need every childrens' show and cartoon doing a "trans kids" episode, we don't need a million childrens' books about "am I a girl??" the ones who are genuinely affected by dysphoria will know, as they always have, and should be given appropriate treatment. The issue I'm talking about occurs when people go way, way overboard to "raise awareness" in a misguided attempt at broadening tolerance, which instead incurs backlash

I don't really blame trannies for this, either, it's more like liberal soccer moms and reddit-infected schoolteachers that just need to chill out a bit and take it down a notch. And I honestly think it would be good for trans people, too, to not have the entire world yammering about you and debating about you day in and day out

stfu Retard faggotass.
You did this to yourselves.
We tried to tell you.

It's the slippery slope, but this time it's real.

Stfu tranny jew retard.
You're a pos for posting
fucking faggot poison pedophilia
Tick tock

No, because you're too much of a disingenuous fucking filthy jew shlomo.
Show tiny cap

my childhood sport was bmx riding/dirt jumping/dirtbikes/paintball
and the school basically said i was = to the columbine kids. because i enjoyed to play paintball and that was 1 of my first initiations into "something isn't right with the system."

like they were taking some fucked up even that had nothing to do with my life and basically trying to blame it on me because i liked to play paintball on the weekends. like at intermediate level. like a sport.
and oh no no no. it was a serious problem for the school for some reason.

If you read my post again, you’ll see that I never said transgender people are being banned from sports. I said the issue is that transgender people are being treated differently from cis people and not being allowed to compete with cis people of the same gender in sports — or, when transgender people compete with cis people of the same gender, this is portrayed as unfair by conservatives. That is what is happening and that is the problem.

And that is a problem because it’s meant to persuade people that there can be a situation — however limited or unusual it may seem — where it would be unfair to treat a transgender man or woman as an “actual” man or woman. That is the purpose of this focus on sports: To create doubt in people’s minds as to whether transgender men and women are ever “really” men and women if there can ever be a time or place when they shouldn’t be treated as such.

And it’s not like transgender athletes are only being criticized when they compete in major sports or leagues. Transwomen are getting global news coverage for competing in women’s darts, fishing, and cycling for women 35-44.

Transwomen are even being prevented from competing with cis women in beauty pageants and chess, where they would presumably have no natural advantage from having been assigned male at birth or experiencing male puberty.

You're visibly stupid

its mostly a terf argument, that trans people are still men so they are biologically stronger and faster, so there is an unfair advantage

You never see men complaining about pooners in sports.

This is all terf bullshit, but they have been very actively loud and willing to deal with the devil (right wingers) to pass laws that are anti trans

I want to support trans people and do support you on most things but I just can't really agree with statements like this, because there is just a clear physical difference, there have been plenty of cases where this has proven to be an unfair advantage, sports are a field where that physical difference really does matter in practical terms and that's why it's been a point of contention

It's not a psyop to "create doubt," it's not "terf bullshit," it's just right there in front of your eyes. I'm confused by your responses because they seem like they must be willfully dishonest

shut the FUCK up, elon cuck