Gender dysphoria is not real

gender dysphoria is not real. not in the sense that the term was christened or as a "pathology" of human development.

the distress and despair develops in relation to, and is the reasonable consequence of a society that 1) asks "how do you want your body to be?" (proposing desire) explicitly through visibility of trans people, and 2) implicitly through an evolved and ubiquitous social landscape of virtual persona, representation, and mass media (expanding the domain of desires), and 3) that widely makes it known that it is possible to prevent or reverse some permanent and undesired changes of sexual development - that it is possible to occupy a different social role and gendered treatment, and that one will be permitted, accepted, and justified for doing so by medicalizing themselves (thus creating a possible world where that desire is obtained).

now we have this modern landscape of adolescents sexually developing by relating themselves to and consuming an endless stream of unique visual representations for perpetually adolescent bodies and sex roles contrary to what they have, or that they might be currently developing out of. possibilities of social roles that are otherwise unacceptable for them to occupy as they are naturally. and a development of self that happens almost as much in a virtual landscape as it does in real life, where fictional representation is the ubiquitous aesthetic and privacy and anonymity allows one to freely relate to any possibility without social consequence.

its all a recipe for the despair: an imbalance of synthesis of possibility to necessity (i am not as I relate myself to myself), and for regret: the denial of a possible world (i could have prevented a permanent change if I had transitioned sooner).

Yeah, and?

Lmao why did you type all this out

men who "live as women" or are "socially female" don't exist, you are 100% delusional and insane and belong locked up tight in an asylum

(2)
that isn't to say that the desire to be a different sex doesn't exists historically before mass media, and that the desire cannot be prior to social development in this landscape: the liberal medical understanding of trans people, as having a gendered-self dependent on biological factors or early social development. However, this isnt really the "cause" for modern trans people, or for the distress that is called gender dysphoria. this is only a factor that predisposes someone to eventually developing that way. as indirectly meaningful as a persistent oral/anal fixation is to being gay.

put frankly, you want to be a yaoi boy or a yuri girl, and you make yourself one, not because you were trans prior to your environment by a hormone imbalance in-utero, or some fundamental development., and because dysphoria somehow confirms your gendered nature objectively, but because you developed in a time where online personas, virtual environments, mass media, and the present possibility of changing oneself in this way created a strong desire to be a certain way.

this why there is, as the same "accepting" liberal public puts it, an "alarming growth in the number of trans people today compared to the 1990s".

trying to deconstruct this shit is so malebrained
literally what autists do before they take the pill and then either go full trans or stop and delude themselves that theyve had some kind of enlightenment, never seen an exception sofar

(3)
as the world begins continues its reactionary backlash towards us, and the convoluted literature for why we exist and deserve accommodation is put under scrutiny: documents like the Cass report, Swedish study (the HSS report luckily fails in this regard) will overtime be treated by the public, as equally authoritative justifications for why we should be denied autonomy, regardless of their apparent rigor or bias. it isnt just that there is a conservative backlash against us that is leveraging the institutions that hold power over us, it is an actual evolution in understanding by people who have and continue to only perceive and comprehend our existence through the dominant narratives of gendered essence and medical pathology, and are struggling to reconcile that understanding with a trans youth that more and more defies those narratives.

https:// dailynous. com/2025/05/05/philosophers-apparent-role-in-governments-treatment-for-pediatric-gender-dysphoria-report-revealed-by-metadata/

take a look at the comment section here and how they discuss these papers. these are academics, not all politically primed to be anti-trans, who truly believe in the pathological explanation for why trans people exist, and feel invited into reconciling the body of "scientific literature" that explains us.

we need a critical and coordinated approach to these medical narratives now, one that is rigorous enough that it can be respected by the establishment, that doesnt entirely abandon the authority of medical power give access to trans medicine, but that begins to strip it its authority towards broader society. one that does not insist upon itself tautologically (trans women are women) , and that doesnt just reconcile the attack on us with claims of greater scientific authority and rigor: a fight that, over a long enough period, will be won by whoever holds the interest of the institutions, as there is no "scientific truth" about us that will somehow prevail.

None of this shit matters. Fact is that evolution put your balls outside of your body, and removing them is so easy there used to be backroom, totally unlicensed cutters who would do the job. No apparatus of law or social judgment can ever really stop you, or force test back into your system. They can call you a man all they like, and sneer at you, but in the end you get what you want.

Gender dysphoria is a severe and inherent medical condition.

because I like typing out my thoughts, and there are sometimes people here who seriously engage.

we live in a society, not just as individuals. we are also a point of inflection, where the current frame for our existence is collapsing and will be replaced. we can exert our power and define how trans people exist in and are treated by society for the foreseeable future, or it will be done for us.

why u so mean nonna

I dont think and operate as an individual, but as a member of a community, with many interests in mind other than my own. these structures are not as far above your influence as you think, and there are many more trans people today to enforce our own narratives. enjoy your apathy i guess.

Unless you have billions to throw at lobbying a corrupt politician, you aren't getting shit done, sorry.

i work in politics. that is not how politics works. especially for a social issue no one is particularly invested in in the first place (other than medical institutions who serve to earn money from offering specialist appointments, surgeries and protecting their liability)

especially for a social issue no one is particularly invested in in the first place

Except they are invested, only they're invested in using trans people as a scapegoat. Although the interesting aspect to that is that we have to continue to exist in order for them to rag on us.

conservatives are invested in using trans people as a scapegoat.
liberals and academics are separate interests, and those predisposed to be supportive are looking for ways to reconcile and reasons to continue their support.
the narratives that constitute their current understanding is collapsing.
what is left is either a continued adherence to the previous authority (medicine) or whatever trans people decide to say for themselves.

if a "community" tells you you should die for existing then you are de facto not part of it and can and should tell it to fuck off

what do you think of the twin studies that show a genetic component to being a tranny?

the twin studies do not track twins separate from one another, in separate distinct social environments. Close siblings, which I think twins are more likely to be, probably a great overlap in their digital environment, media consumption, etc. And similar predispositions and environmental factors. By my explanation too, having a sibling transition makes that possibility that much more present in your own life, a twin moreso, because you can see the physical possibility of transition on a body that is identical to yours.There might be a genetic component that isn't trivial, but again just correlated, its still not causal.

I dont know what this means

"gender dysphoria" is mostly just peter pan syndrome
most trannies would be perfectly fine looking like young faggots forever

prove it

prove it

you are a schizophrenic loser

source:

ohh no someone writes a few hundred words they're schizo-posting!

prove what?

why would anyone get bottom surgery then? or breast augmentation? this is absurd.

you're a schizo because you're just rambling on the basis of assumption, not exploring or understanding anything

Society: do you want to look like caitlyn jenner and dylann mulvaney young child?

young child: ugh if I don't get hrt before 15 I'm kms fr fr

true story

I pretty specifically addressed the only real question posed on twin studies.

What am I not exploring enough or being specific about?

even the slightest attempt to substantiate your claim beyond rhetoric

which claim!?! are you a bot?

literally
the
first
fucking
claim
in
the
op

how are you this fucking stupid

gender dysphoria evolved out of GID, as a less-essentializing pathology "alleviated" by transition, to, in its newest revision, a even less pathologizing "distress associated to gender identity incongruency". I mean, even to the professionals writing these changes, the pathology is literally just a tool for coverage at this point.

im offering an existential and social explanation for this distress and attacking its common understanding as pathology born from some extremely fundamental gender development, and an essential idea of gender. its not necessarily even incompatitible with the idea of gender and gender in-congruence, at least if those identities are understood to come about socially can be continually informed.

Im not sure what you want. im not really trying to argue that we are the consequence of our digital environments and media consumption in some way that trivializes being trans, or makes it a "choice". i think that is clear. again im offering an existential explanation that cant be emperically proven, but that doesnt mean this is just "rhetoric".

prove that

there is no empiricism here buddy you are just engaging in rhetoric, this just reads like any common "takedown" of "gender ideology"

so what? i don't get how this is bad. you say so little. no shit this process is mediated by the images we consume and by the possibility of transness in the first place. to be honest, there's little distinction to be drawn between 'real life' and fiction, always was, it's only that ideas are broader and more open. there's a kernel of reality in being trans hwoever, solely in that it's hard to categorise and 'breaks' certain expectations.
none of this inherently leads to despair. what leads to despair is a desire for acceptance, to be something you're not (a woman or a man, which, honestly no one is in the first place, except to the extent to which people say that they are), but being trans does not have to be about that.

yaoi boy or a yuri girl

this comes out of nowehre.
look, most of the shit you've written can be taken as a very generic argument against any kind of biological framework. trannies hardly fit in anywhere. you provide pretty much no specific arguments for trannies from what i can see, as to why, specifically, trannies arise from this, and no some other kind of identity induced by the 'virtual landscape' (which allows one to freely relate to ANY possibility).

is swear that there used to be people on this board that werent illiterate.

also wtf is this empiricism or rhetoric dichotomy? do you anything that isnt or cannot be empirically investigated is just "rhetoric"?

anything that isnt or cannot be empirically investigated is just "rhetoric"

when you're not using reason or any real-world empirical base to discuss your conclusions about empirical matters? yes, definitionally, that is rhetoric

You raise an important point about the need for a coordinated approach: If I was a politician and my main focus was to improve trans rights, I wouldn’t even talk about trans rights during campaigning. That is because most people are just not interested in listening to ‘woke gender ideology’ and being told that not using preferred pronouns makes you transphobic.

Look at Bernie Sanders for example, he is a very intelligent man that knows being the ‘nice guy’ in politics isn’t going to work. He instead fights the right wing establishment that only serves the interests of the rich. He uses the term ‘oligarchy’ as a method to transfer people’s anger of societal issues to the super rich. This method allows him to win over voters (many of which are conservatives and would vote for trump) that will support his progressive politics.

Whether you are a lefty or not, this is our only plan. We need to push the scapegoat of society to the oligarchs.

its not bad. did I say this was bad?

no shit this process is mediated by the images we consume and by the possibility of transness in the first place

I agree this is all rather obvious, yet for some reason if you asked the average person they think being trans is about possessing some underlying gendered self, which then is signaled through the development of gender dysphoria, rather than the desires formed in-relation to oneself, which exist beyond just "gender". the argument for why there are more trans people is just given to "social contagion" by terfs, or "left-handness" and social acceptability by trans people. my argument is based in recent (last 25 years) social-digital landscapes, and changes in mass media, which I think are far more explanatory.

none of this inherently leads to despair. what leads to despair is a desire for acceptance, to be something you're not (a woman or a man, which, honestly no one is in the first place, except to the extent to which people say that they are), but being trans does not have to be about that.

what do you mean? the prevalent narrative about gender dysphoria specifically is about a relation to ones body and social role. trans people certainly arent just despairing for acceptance. it is fundamentally about desire still.

this comes out of nowehre.

it doesnt. its an example of the sorts of digital and media representations that trans people's desires are fixated on. especially on twitter and on here. literally every trans person I know has an "ideal" of themselves primarily informed by fictional depictions and their consumption of those in development of themselves.

as to why, specifically, trannies arise from this, and no some other kind of identity induced by the 'virtual landscape' (which allows one to freely relate to ANY possibility).

if there was a possibility medical possibility of grafting animal features, I think you would likely have furries and dog girls jumping at the opportunity.

Start having these desires at a very young age, before my family even had access to the internet

Hate the fuck out of my body my entire life

First exposure to the internet was looking up FFVIII guides

Until I was in my late teens I only ever used the internet for game information

Trannies didn't really exist in common public discourse back then, had no idea they existed

My environmental was incredibly hostile to everything but 100% straight masculine men who chugged beer and worked on cars with no feelings

Fucking hate yaoi and yuri

Anon claims that I feel this way because society groomed me into it by promoting pro-trans narratives and that I want to be a yuri hentai protagonist

I think your 'theory' only works for a certain population of trenders and nobody else. Makes absolutely zero sense in cases like mine.

yeah, and i advocate this to people who get too bogged in the details of arguing specific issues. honestly lawmakers arent great at this on average, since they arent particularly invested anyway. the most successful approach is pointing to the scapegoating and telling people that it is the rich trying to get them to abandon their material interest by caring about a marginalized group that doesnt effect them. I agree its the best rhetoric.

But I dont think its enough. the narratives we have for justifying ourselves to liberals:

i have an condition causing an incongruent gender which causes gender dysphoria, a medical pathology associated to my condition that needs to be treated by insured medical transition and social accommodation to integrate me into a role where I am comfortable.

need to change. it begs for institutional power and actors to determine our validity and access to care as we have seen in UK, US, Sweden, etc. suicide/suicidality statistics that allowed for the initial push for youth healthcare are changing and it frankly none of this is rigorously explanatory in any serious way, (im fine expanding on this btw "empirical-anon"), and justifying on the basis of "efficacious medical treatment" rather than liberty and bodily autonomy about a strongly held desire, preserves the pathology that undermines us (efficacious to alleviating what harm, etc).

they are not sufficient, and especially as liberal conscientious begins to break in the US as it did in the UK, NYT op-eds are going to gradually push the average liberal towards seeing trans people as incoherent.

Yep even in the UK that is changing despite having a relatively centrist government. Just look at the Cass review for example.

Reppers will make up 400 gorillion reasons to discredit their gender dysphoria or their interchangeable flaws by shifting the blame on society and the internet or whatever else they can come up with to show that "their feelings aren't real, actually" and shame themselves into never trooning out or improving themselves instead of just jumping the gun for a couple years and investing.
They will spend years upon years toiled over deconstructing every single aspect of themselves in order to somehow gain a reason as to why they are the way they are instead of improving. And even at the end of the day, it all comes out the same way, the same couple responses of

"It's because I'm socially inept"

"I'm lazy and can't commit to being myself"

"I must have watched too much porn and it's warped my worldview"

"I just wasn't raised right"

"It's society that made me this way"

Newsflash: you're not coming to some profound never-before-seen realization, you're just HATING ON YOURSELF. You're cherrypicking things from yourself to give yourself fuel to hate on yourself or paint yourself in a bad light even more. Normal, mentally-well people don't fucking ruminate on their upbringing or what influenced them for more than 2 seconds because they do things in spite of it.
They correct their warped mindset because they don't let their past shape their present.

How many reppers have constantly fed themselves this lie of "this is disgusting and a fantasy" to shame themselves into keeping up a facade instead of living for themselves for once, even in the smallest form? It doesn't matter to them that there's been countless people who try and fix it for themselves by conforming or finding help in God only for them end up cracking later on; no, somehow all of this is society's fault and they're a brave soul for going against the grain and fixing it themselves.

You're being influenced by grifters and being fed a narrative that you're a trender who's definitely gonna desist when in reality the rate is much more smaller than it is. Even so, many detransitioners have expressed that they often did it due to medical or societal reasons, never because their feelings weren't real. If dysphoria wasn't real for them, they wouldn't desire to alter their primary and secondary sex characteristics, they'd use gender nonconformity labels as societal statement (ex. girls who use he/him but don't make any active effort to present masculine).

"My desires aren't real because they're influenced by society!"

Almost everything you do is influenced by society, dipshit. If you followed this logic to it's theoretical endpoint you'd be like Chris McCandless living in the wilderness hunting and gathering free from societal influence and constructs. Almost everything we desire aside from the urge to eat, live, fuck and kill is a societal construct; some range from physical things like buildings and transportation to mental ones like language and the categorization of mental conditions into disorders. Of course if you were isolated from society your whole life you'd never want to be a woman because there's no one to percieve you as a woman nor is there an idea of femininity and masculinity to base your desire off of. The best part about society is that you can block out the parts that annoy you if you try hard enough. But the solution isn't ridding yourself of the desire because it's counterintuitive and makes it worse. It's satisfying it in some small way.

If you one day make a step to at least make yourself happy in some aspect, it'll pay off in the long run. But if you're gonna keep telling yourself that this is everyone else's fault and that you're being manipulated, fine. Have fun when you're suddenly 50 with a family and it's worsened into something like crossdressing or sissy fetishism. Take care of it when you still have time.

Im not hating on myself at all. and im not a repressor? im frankly just currently terrified in the state of things and frustrated that other trans people are so anxiously attached to and understanding themselves through this house of cards

im not trying to narrow or trivialize anyone's experience down to "yuri hentai protagonist" or fetish. i used those as an example, because they are heavily informative to the "aesthetic goals" of alot of trans people

I grew up in a similar environment and had largely similar feelings and a ignorance towards trans people existing until 14. I think heavily gendered environments cause many people to hate themselves and their bodies, as even plenty of cis people do not fit well to gender norms or how they are expected to idealize themselves.

regardless. I don't think the only explanation remaining is that you have an underlying biological or early social development that caused you to develop a gender identity that triggered gender dysphoria because that is the pathological consequence of incongruent gender. Developing these desires can be influenced by alot of factors. I think the examples I gave are reasonably large influences on people today, as catalysts for why so many more people are transitioning now. its not just "trenders" that are somehow fundamentally different from you or a "leveling off".

woman isn't a feeling a man can have

woman isnt a discrete feeling. and much of what constitutes it, men can absolutely feel. this is a foolish way to understand yourself.

men can't feel like women
you just have autism

All these words and they're just meaningless drivel too caught up in social constructs. My brain carnally craves to have a certain range of physical form, one that happens to be predominantly composed of what are considered female traits, and forms that are predominantly what's considered male are incongruent with my mind and induce suffering, this fact of my being is ingrained and irrefutable. Simple as.

how do you know this?
i used to think this too, and even had childhood experiences that I used to justify it. But if you actually scrutinize any of the specific desires you have, how cant you begin to reconcile them with the development of yourself and the desires you begin to form. the self is a relation after all. which of these primal feelings do you have first? of being a girl then a woman? or was it always the same feeling?

even worse, how do you define this experience? you cant because its phenomonological right? and then many people dont relate to this supposedly universal gendered feeling right? so what then? the retreat ive heard is that it can only be experience through dissonance/incongruence?

trans women are men