Transitioning after puberty doesnt work

hi nona how was your day

miserable as always

oh nona i feel like you are such adorable thing in real life tell me what irks you

I dunno desu, but I don't feel like any of that applies to me at all.
I just have severe dysphoria that I thought would go away if I just waited, but it didn't and now it's too late.

they are "repressing" and will definitely one day be a heroin addict too because it's the destiny of all people who even consider heroin

repressing doesn't imply that you will ever transition

i definitely remember wanting to be a girl before i learned what trans people were, and i also started puberty before learning and hated it which is why i went on a google rabbit hole that led to learning about transition.
i dont see where the contagion could have happened, unless you want to blame early childhood trauma

I don't know. I had these feelings too. I just want to understand it. It doesn't make sense. It's self destructive to do this to yourself, and now it's definitely encouraged.

I thought this way, but maybe it's a normal thought until the internet reinforced it? I didn't even consider it a true possibility until the early internet and Anon Babble taught me it was, then it was off to the races in my teens.

Is it THAT kind of mind virus? The one where all it takes is two people with the virus to come together and decide it's valid and then it becomes born into the world? If there was no community and nobody else ever transed in history would we ever decide independently to transition?

I often wonder if we are seeing this same mind virus brought about with furries too. Furries were never a thing until the internet propagated them. Now there's furfags everywhere. My niece has basically been groomed into furfaggotry by these communities and the concepts they represent. I hate to consider it but would this be a similar mind virus breaking out in real time that directly mirrors the trans one?

27 y/o repressor here.
The dysphoria hasn't gone away.
I don't think it will.

Transition before puberty doesn’t work either - your bones will always look male!

i think it's more that it was a latent thing in some people, that came out when medicine advanced enough to enable it.
like i can pinpoint when i learned the concept, i saw that one family guy episode where the wheelchair guy's dad transitions and glazed right past the jokes and went

wait, they can give me boobs and a vagina in thailand??

and then started googling
i knew about crossdressers before then, but the idea kind of disgusted me. i had a male form, and i would make it look good, not put ill fitting things on it. ace ventura and rocky horror conditioning i guess. but learning i could change not just my clothes but my actual body, changed everything.
if medical transition didn't exist or i didn't know of it i might have had some successfullish ennui ridden artist/inventor man life and never known. so i guess that was it.
but i don't think that genie goes back in the bottle. we can't un-invent synthetic sex hormones

Do you think mass media, specifically children's cartoons had a hand in this?

I remember having gender-swap dreams as young as four, but after that there were Nickeoloden cartoons like Fairly Odd Parents and Jimmy Neutron that had gender-bender/body swap episodes. I wonder if trans people recall seeing these episodes, or other shows that explored gender/body swapping.

People have made arguments for animators sprinkling their fetishes inside their shows (such as in Totally Spies), which may have influenced their audiences. Could the same thing be true of trans people who saw these cartoons as a kid?

I wonder if those episodes planted the trans bug in my head, or if I'm just looking for excuses to hand-wave my dysphoria away (repper btw)

But how many cases of "repressing" is only that because of the memetic accusation that deciding against transitioning makes you a "repressor"

Even the thought I might be looking for excuses to explain away my dysphoria could be due to memeing myself into the repressor narrative

That's the punching point. I felt the same way. When I saw crossdressers in media I just laughed at it and thought it was gross or disgusting. But when it came to actual body modification my interest was piqued. The brainworms definitely enhanced with age but it wasn't until Anon Babble "trap" culture back in 2006 and seeing people like Bailey Jay and early timelines threads where I learned it was possible and started down this grim path.

But the question still lingers if it wasn't encouraged and made available would it have sunk its teeth in? Are we doing others a disservice by promoting it? Would it be better if it was destroyed and not made available at all? Trans life is undeniably unhappy and wrought with strife. Should we have protected others rather than indoctrinating them to walk our same path?

I think about this a lot.

Maybe the Nazis burning all of the trans literature and studies in Weimar was the correct answer after all.

your bones will always look male

not if you take hormones before your bones finish growing (puberty)

idc what happens to anyone but me desu. i am the main character

t. boomer

continuing from >i saw that one family guy episode where the wheelchair guy's dad transitions and glazed right past the jokes

I forgot about that episode. It was Quagmire's (the pilot/sex addict) dad who transitioned btw

i think it's more that it was a latent thing in some people, that came out when medicine advanced enough to enable it.

Although I have my cartoon theory, I must admit there's some truth to this too. I remember crossdressing since I was a child, but transitioning never crossed my mind until I saw tv shows like Family guy that explored the idea. By highschool I knew about SRS and breast implants, but I never entertained an actual transition until I learned about HRT.

But the question still lingers if it wasn't encouraged and made available would it have sunk its teeth in? Are we doing others a disservice by promoting it?

i feel you on this, and i don't know. i was definitely influenced by passoid timelines too, and i don't look like that, but i don't regret transition either. for me i think as soon as knowledge of hrt and surgeries was at hand i was bound to pull the trigger. i hated everything testosterone was doing to my body, and even before that i wished my head was shaped different and my bepis was a vajayjay without an explanation why i felt that way.

Trans life is undeniably unhappy and wrought with strife.

is it though? i think what you see is a community rife with dysmorphia piled onto dysphoria, people obsessed with unattainable transition goals and unhappy from that. for most of history there were eunuchs, many happy and successful, some eunuchs by choice. and third genders, two spirits, etc. they accepted their circumstances and what they couldn't change. we can change a little, but not everything. that drives people crazy, but if they accept that there's greater happiness on the other side. lay the transition into discrete medical steps, do them, be done (aside from upkeep injections), move on with life. that's the way to go.

Would it be better if it was destroyed and not made available at all?

Maybe the Nazis burning all of the trans literature and studies in Weimar was the correct answer after all.

destruction of knowledge and technology is never the solution. not only because of how difficult it is to truly stamp out (even if the nazis won there would have been people who remembered trannies for decades), not only because it's regressive, but first of all because it's futile. knowledge with some use can always re-emerge and given enough time it will. if some knowledge is dangerous it has to be tamed when found, suppression is unending whack-a-mole

ohh right it was quagmire, now i remember his arc in that episode of panicking and then becoming a trans ally and losing his shit at brian or something
also god why did they have to make the tranny sleep with the DOG jfc

remember crossdressing since I was a child, but transitioning never crossed my mind until I saw tv shows like Family guy that explored the idea

yeah same, i would try on makeup and girl clothes and stuff. then saw the way adults reacted and developed a complex of being super presentable, like if my body was wrong i would just make it still good and liked to the outside world as cope. then i would seek out spaces where it was socially acceptable and encouraged to crossdress (mostly conventions) and be praised as a cute femboy there, while being praised at home and school for presenting a neat preppy masculine guy who was basically a totally different person
not sure about cartoon theory, but i can't personally disprove it as i had a neglectful early childhood and basically breathed late 90s nickelodeon and cartoon network lol. so maybe that was it. i do know whatever caused my tranny thoughts started before 5 though so a me without that is sort of just some other person, which makes the cause not feel super important, more a curiousity

makes no difference how early you start boys look different than girls before puberty

All trans women are mailmen.

trans women are male females

package notice
uve got male

Its no use. If these people could see past their own perversions, they would end up ashamed to the point of self deading...

oh, wait... that's an interesting concept.

Like I said, it's the sunk cost fallacy.

It's also why 40% of transwomen commit suicide and people actually killed themselves over just the threat of Trump removing some trans medical exceptions.

When you think about it critically it's a very fucked societal hole that we have all had a part in plunging ourselves into.

is this the new meta, how come this board changed so much, now trooning is seen as gay cope, autist cope, like what ? Because you chose to be aligned with yourself, you being naricistic and selfish, clearly not.

why did they have to make the tranny sleep with the DOG jfc

I think back then it was easy to laugh off because trannys were just viewed as weird people and many people didn't think someone they knew (or even themselves) would come out years later when more people became aware of transitioning beyond sex change operations.

But in hindsight, yeah, that decision likely reinforced everyday people's belief of transgenders as sexual pariahs.

i had a neglectful early childhood and basically breathed late 90s nickelodeon and cartoon network lol. so maybe that was it.

I know that feel. Again, it's just a theory I've crafted, but I will say I usually enjoyed the gender-swap episodes more than the others with a guilty feeling.

I think my experiences largely mirror yours (raised on cartoon network, then eventually the internet), although my first experience crossdressing was at 3 when my sisters dressed me up.

Maybe I'm like this because I was jealous of the experiences my sisters had that I couldn't, and subconsciously, Child-me started believing that something was wrong with me if I couldn't access those experiences, and pointed at my gender as the problem.

Every time we went out to the mall, I was naturally excluded from the shopping experiences my mother and sisters had. It's not like I could try out clothes and makeup with them, and I didn't have a choice to do anything else since I was the youngest and couldn't be left alone. I just had to wait outside the fitting room area, then eventually outside the store when I became a middle schooler.

Oh well, at least they left their old clothes and makeup when they moved out.

yeah true I I've had ffs and such but it doesn't matter because my bones everywhere else are fucked

Call it a cosmic awakening.

Maybe the community grew too much and too many normies were let through the gates so now it's collapsing in on itself, unable to keep the core attributes of delusion that were so heavily stomped into it over the past dozen years of lefty hegemony?

The community always spoke like this back when I started on this, way back before reddit and the all-encompassing overly accepting pure fetishoids thought themselves the judge jury and executioners of trans law.

Leftism shot too close to the sun. It aimed at being too inclusive, too blindly submissiven to everything and the kitchen sink, and too far up its own ass to ever publicly besmirtch a single attribute of its own self gratification no matter how absurd or unhinged it became.

We are at a contemplative point in this. The breath of fresh air. The step back to ponder where it went wrong and what needs to go and what needs to stay.

It's unsustainable as is, that's for sure.

It's also why 40% of transwomen commit suicide

What would explain the 59% who don't?

it's a very fucked societal hole that we have all had a part in plunging ourselves into.

Are you a repper like me? Even I feel I've fallen down the hole. Transitioning hangs over my head like the Sword of Damocles.

Think about it. Everyone says people who rep eventually go John, 50. Former reppers who ended up transitioning either went John, 50 or transitioned earlier, in their late 20s-mid 30s, because of the John, 50 spook. Every day, I'm spooked by the sunk-cost fallacy you described:

"Transition now. If you eventually find you can't repress anymore and transition years later, you will lose X years you could have spent living as yourself and you won't pass as well as you would have if you transitioned earlier"

I wish the media and other trans people would stop pushing that "repressing" narrative

At this point it's almost impossible to discern whether I'm "repping" (deciding against transitioning) because I am actually a repressor or because I'm actually cis and was meme'd/gaslit into believing I'm a repressor.

I don't think it matters anymore, because at the end of the day, I have thoughts and feelings (that may be described as Gender Dysphoria) which I can't seem to escape.

What would explain the 59% who don't?

cowardice

I'm not a "repper." It's far worse. I transitioned in my teens and am post operative, post FFS, and have lived most of my adult life as a transwoman.

As I slowly age out of the youthful phase of my life (37 now) I question heavily the path I walked. I'm a more fully realized self fulfilled person now. Much more than I was at 19. After it's all said and done I find myself wondering why I put so much into this obsession, what lead to it, what brought me to where I am, and if there was really a point to it all when it's all said and done.

I was never a gooner but can clearly admit it was a fetish. I just wonder if dysphoria existed before or after I made that mental decision based on the memetic factors of the concept of transitioning to begin with.

How much of this is really our decision and how much of it is deception or conceptions that have been placed on us from outside forces? I see the same sort of things posted today as back when I started so long ago, but I've also watched the evolution of things and what kind of rabbit hole they've continued to descend down.

Just being a bit of a philosopher and trying to get to the bottom of it all, because the explanations available feel deceptive at worst and an unfinished conjecture at best. I feel like this is all a "no go zone" for trans philosophy that has been black labeled as purely anti-trans by the moderation of the greater community at large, when this is in fact a transwoman really deep diving into the source of the matters.

where it went wrong and what needs to go and what needs to stay.

Hons, simple, the problems are crazy hons that give all trans bad rep. It might be because leftism was too inclusive and let those bad apples take too much space.

t. hit the wall

I'm not a "repper." It's far worse. I transitioned in my teens and am post operative, post FFS, and have lived most of my adult life as a transwoman.

What about your current life is worse than being a repper? I ask these questions with genuine curiosity:
Do you regret any of your decisions?
Is there anything you would have done differently (e.g. asked myself X,Y and Z before transitioning; transitioned at a later/earlier time, avoided certain surgeries)?
Do you enjoy your life as a woman?
Are you happy now?
Do you think you would have achieved similar or greater levels of happiness, self-realization, and fulfillment if you didn't transition?

Please answer whichever questions you're comfortable with.
Or ignore them all, you don't owe me anything.

However, as someone who's unsure what to do (repress vs transition), I would appreciate any answers you can give.

if there was really a point to it all when it's all said and done

If you're asking if there was a point to pursuing transition with regards to realizing yourself or becoming self-fulfilled, I don't think I can help you discover the answer.
I suppose I'm hoping I could find the answer through you, so I could see if transitioning is worth doing (although I'm sure whether it's worth it depends on the person).

I feel like this is all a "no go zone" for trans philosophy that has been black labeled as purely anti-trans by the moderation of the greater community at large, when this is in fact a transwoman really deep diving into the source of the matters.

I agree. These are serious questions we should be asking, but it seems it's politically inconvenient to discuss. I feel it's similar to how detrans perspectives might be viewed (either dismissed or discredited because "if they detransitioned then they likely weren't trans at all"). I don't know if that's the general consensus btw, but I imagine some trans people might think this way.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and perspectives btw

Maybe it's a mid life crisis, maybe it's a spiritual awakening. Either way it's going to happen to everyone eventually. If you live long enough (trust me I've lived a hell of a ride and thought I'd be long gone by now) you're going to reach this point too. This is especially true of the early birds cropping up though I'm super curious how people that have transitioned at the age of 12 or 13 like all of these young shits will end up. I wonder how they will age, how their bodies will take being on hormones for upwards of 50-60years, and what the suicide and drug death rate will look like when you remove that post-puberty honhood from the wider trans perspective. Will they be okay being barren facsimiles of women well into older age? Will they really be okay never reproducing? Will they miss the male experience they self denied before ever even chancing it? There's so many unknowns to the new age youngshits I wonder how they will fare.

The millennials seem to have gone insane and basically defined their lives by how long they can continue to have wanton fetishistic sex and exploit themselves in any way possible. A huge subgroup of them seem to have moved on to borderline pedophilia in an attempt to never grow up.

The aversion to aging, to adulthood and its many demands and responsibilities definitely seems intrinsically connected to trans ideology and lifestyle, even more so with the Zoomers obsession with anti aging and inability to cope with modern concepts like twinkdeath, with male pattern baldness being one of the hugest troon factors for an entire generation of young men.

The anti aging obsession is real and pervasive in myself and I'd assume every other troon out there. Nobody wants to age, but troons and Zoomers are completely off the rails with it. Millennials are more infantilized and obsessed with nostalgia and clinging to the past while Zoomers seem constitutionally unaccepting of aging overall.

I've seen tiktoks of youngshits from the 60's and they basically just looked like old women. I forget the @, otherwise I would link it. They didn't seem unhappy with their decision.

Zoomers seem constitutionally unaccepting of aging overall

Immortality, while still unreachable, is closer than ever before seen in human history. It's only natural that the attitudes of new generations reflect this.

barren facsimiles of women well into older age? Will they really be okay never reproducing?

for 1) freezing your sperm and 2) you can always adopt. Some people are literally born sterile, does that mean these men or women are facsimiles. Ur just having an episode right now, it's the E speaking, find some dick or whatever makes you happy, get some good sex and do something you like other than carnal needs, read, learn, socialize.

Do you regret any of your decisions?

There's a part of me that wishes I would've transitioned earlier alongside a part of me that wonders what life could have been if I had never transitioned at all. I would have done so many things differently but I can say allowing the concept of transition to cloud my thoughts and become so much a part of my identity left me with so much less time to explore many other facets of life you could say I "missed out" on.

Do you enjoy your life as a woman?

It's swanky but in the greater picture is it really so different than what I would've been? I'm still me. I still act like me and still do whatever I want to do. I might have made better friendships and connections without this being a thorn in the side of proper socialization though.

Are you happy now?

Happiness is achievable and fleeting but to say I'm content or happy overall would be a lie.

Do you think you would have achieved similar or greater levels of happiness, self-realization, and fulfillment if you didn't transition?

This is a hard one. The more I ponder it the more I wonder if I would have or if the mental disease that leads people to troon is just pining for whatever you don't have currently and the goal post would just shift to me pining for this had I not obtained it. Is there ever an end to "the wanting?" Pretty sure it was some form of Buddhism that warned against the sensation of always wanting. The whole trans experience is this feeling of "i don't know what I want but it's surely somewhere far away out there somewhere I'm not at currently." Maybe this is unfufillable with a god shaped hole in the soul.

I think you're talking about Mardi Pieronek (@mardipantz)

Being born with a natural defect that prevents reproduction is a different sort of struggle (and im sure it's still an internal struggle) than knowing you willingly chose self sterilization because of a fetishistic desire you allowed to develop into an obsession.

Sex doesn't interest me. It's really never interested me. I burned out my pleasure receptors a long time ago. Now I'm more or less a eunuch other than the rare times sexual stimulation seems entertaining. I'm surely not a gooner and can't even understand the human obsession with flicking their drug switch to get high on a fleeting feeling. I was a drug addict for a long time and have since quit every drug imaginable and stabilized myself. I feel like sex is being used like a drug by society at large. Just like a drug builds tolerance I built a tolerance to sex where it doesn't interest or excite me anymore.

fetishistic desire you allowed to develop into an obsession

I think that's your issue here.

But if we are realistic that's what trooning is at its core principle. You fetishize the entire act, not just sexually, but emotionally. You obsess over it and put all of your eggs in that basket. You think you can escape from something or find something about yourself that you're incapable of doing in your current state. But at the end of the road all you find is yourself again staring back at you right where you started.

But at the end of the road all you find is yourself again staring back at you right where you started.

Well, that I think should be why transitioning must be gatekept through multiple therapy sessions before letting one go through the process, and not like before where the only path forward was to mention that nothing else would work except sui.

Transitioning is not a solution for other latent life issues, that's why you feel like you went back to square one. It's like people that move to Japan (or any other country) because they don't fit where they live, then they realize the problem is not the country, it's them, you stay you no matter your gender or location.

Trooning

Sex

Drug addiction

It's all the same concept rebranded different ways. Trying to utilize escapism to get outside of myself by doing anything but thinking inward. If I dress up the outside differently maybe I'll be a different person. It's no surprise there's concepts like "dead naming" where the delusion that you've somehow killed yourself and became someone else is so prevalent it's a normal accepted part of the base ideology. In fact you are every much alive and the same being you always were.

How am I different than someone that buys a wall full of funko pops to escape their crushing need to escape from reality? How is this different than sticking a needle in my arm for 10 seconds of bliss only to crash back to the real world in 45 minutes and need to do it all over again? The core of the problem is the unobtainable obsession with becoming someone I'm not or feeling a way that's artificially different than facing the facts of self?

That's why I can't just blindly advocate for trooning as a therapeutic method though. Because many may use it for a purely sexual stimulation and can escape through the fetishisizing piece of it, but is that a safe alternative? What happens when the sexual haze fades and gives way to reality?

Ignoring even the sexual piece if you're doing it for a purely social gain then is it really the only option to getting in touch with self? If you could learn to love who you are as you are and train yourself in pro-adaptive techniques of some sort to gain acceptance would it even be advised to go through these rigorous and painful remodeling of self to begin with?

In fact you are every much alive and the same being you always were.

obviously, wtf you saying. Everyone escapes reality, the question is what are you trying to escape. you

you could learn to love who you are as you are

that's the real reason one would transition, to be ALIGNED with oneself, to feel whole, complete. And it's OBVIOUSLY a path filled with OBSTACLES. If you go through this only because of an obsession with sex and it's fetishistic, maybe ok (you do you), but that's not SUSTAINABLE and should not be confused with actual trannies that suffer deep within from not being true to their core.

What you're misunderstanding is that at your core you're going to find something that has nothing to do with your sex or gender. You thinking that this is the way to solve the question of who you are is the big failure of transitioning. Placing this much importance on your gender identity is a huge waste of time when it's all said and done. Transitioning just isn't the answer to solve the question of self and it feels like propagating it as the solution is a falsehood that leads to so much struggle and suffering that doesn't really amount to anything in the finality of it all.

1/3

Thank you for answering my questions!

There's a part of me that wishes I would've transitioned earlier alongside a part of me that wonders what life could have been if I had never transitioned at all.

I would have done so many things differently but I can say allowing the concept of transition to cloud my thoughts and become so much a part of my identity left me with so much less time to explore many other facets of life you could say I "missed out" on.

Funny enough, I have very similar thoughts.
Part of me wonders what my life could have been if I were a cis female.
Part of me wishes I transitioned in my teens (I'm 27 now).
Part of me wonders what my life would be right now if I transitioned at all.
Although I'm sure if I transitioned, I would also be wondering how life would be if I didn't transition at all!

Even as a repper, I find myself going through the above thought-experiments so much, it's been robbing my ability to live - the transition question clouds my thoughts every day whenever I'm alone.

I feel it's paralyzing me in terms of relationships - I have refused to date women because I don't want to risk wasting their time or failing their expectations of a cis-boyfriend if I end up transitioning. I don't even think I'd make a good partner if these thoughts are lingering in the back of my head.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say there are 'facets of life' you may have missed out on. Are you referring to relationships or experiences, or milestones?

You thinking that this is the way to solve the question of who you are is the big failure of transitioning.

I'm not thinking that, you are. I know who I am (and gender is only a small fraction of that answer), I just wanna be aligned and feel good within my body. Again, like many anons tonight, it's projections on others.

2/3

in the greater picture is it really so different than what I would've been? I'm still me.

I suppose transition or otherwise, you're still you in personality and mind (ignoring any emotional changes due to HRT), but your body is still significant. The parts of you that were changed during your transition are still valuable.

I would say you have a woman's body - at least a body that approximates a "typical" woman's body as much as possible (hormonally, psychologically, what have you).
It may not be what we want (one might wish we could transfer our brains to female clones of ourselves, for example), but it's the best the world can offer right now, with our current technology.

Your body will no longer masculinize like most AMABs (something that distresses me). You will likely age gracefully as a woman does.

Even though you're still you, I'd argue your transition opened your life (your "playthrough" if you will) to certain "female" experiences and relationships that would have otherwise been unavailable, while locking you out of certain "male" experiences and relationships you might have had or continued to have if you didn't transition.

If you value the experiences, relationships and socialization that are now available to you as a woman over those exclusively available to men, I would say there was value and worth to your transition, but that's just my opinion.