Depooning

uh oh the angry peeners are coming to the daily afab ragebait thread!

it only works because this actually happens anon! :)

damm bro i'm too lazy to keep this shit up

he's so fucking malebrained he's getting too lazy to keep being a man, but if you made it this far without reverse dysphoria i bet you'll get it by dropping hrt

OP probably lied to doctors and said that they were super dysphoric. I doubt they just gave it to them because they said they felt like it. It's not their fault that your parents were chuds.

Kill yourself
t. ftm

i said i hate this world not op.
i would have never had the opportunity for discovery that op did and its because i was born male. female spaces dont typically try to kill the gay out of people as hard as male spaces.

ie. tumblr vs Anon Babble

also

who cares if my daughters gay or trans she doesn't pass down the family name to her offspring she'd just be continuing someone else's bloodline anyway

its just the patriarchy in action

why are ftms addicted to saying this it doesnt make them look manlier. in fact makes them look more like fat pussy chud edgelords

Not everyone who says kys on here is ftm

it's okay to be a little nonbinary or whatever the fuck. im like the mtf version if that im basically a mentally ill man with tits and i don't give a fuck. fuck all the haters they can choke do death on my dick. stay autistic. stay weird. do whatever you want all the time because fuck being normal and fuck normies for shaming us for being different. schizo rapehon and autistic pooner supremacy forever

Women.

Would it be a good idea to depoon?

Yes.

If not socially, at least medically.

Socially first, medically last.

Or is it too late?

It is always too late.

But those who are not ftms know when to use it.
They end up looking like edgy teens who don't know when to use it and use it to sound mature and manly.

this they just sound like polcels

Kill yourself
t. ftm

I'm not mature nor manly.
Unlike mtfs who fall for bait threads and make huge walls of text crying about a fake scenario, I just tell OP to kill xyrself and move on with my day. All of you are living in la la land.

Not everyone who doesn't know how to use it is ftm

Case in point. You don't understand the reason to tell someone to kill themselves.
Also, I said that edgy teens say kys to sound mature and manly, I was not talking about (You).

Yes, edgy teens are the other group, because they are childish, just like women.
The easy way to spot an ftm is to just wait for them to announce to the entire world that they own a womb.
I don't even need to tell you the hard way to spot a pooner in the wild.

i can only tell someone is ftm when they tell me

Sounds legit

Pooner tries to bait so that the only honest cisM she has ever encountered will tell her how to larp better as a man

It's all in the "hard way" I was referencing.
Which I even talked partially in this thread: women do not understand violence.

youll never know how it feels to be anything other than a weak unpenised woman who cant please one proper. thats honestly worse than death imo

What? What does this post have anything to do with what I replied earlier?

You don't understand the reason to tell someone to kill themselves

The reason is that I actually want them to kill themselves.
Why would I want to please a woman?

In a normal world most trannies would end up detransing.

Sunk cost fallacy/Social benefits keeps a lot of trannies from going back.

I want them to kill themselves because I want them to kill themselves.

What does this post have anything to do with what I replied earlier?

You seemed to notice only the "easy way" to clock a pooner, which is to wait for them to tell you that they are pooners.
You didn't seem to notice that I was also talking about a "hard way" to spot a pooner.
I presumed that you were baiting me to talk about this "hard way", in order to larp better as a man.
I hope now it is more clear.

so you would finally allow them to feel what you cant

also wishing violence on me has no effect seeing as you cant physically exert any power or impart anything than a quick laugh. if i saw you, no matter how much you tried to piss me off or disgust me, i refuse to let myself beat the shit out of a woman

>start testosterone at 16

it's so utterly insane that this is allowed

I don't give your posts that much thought

I want OP to kill herself for making this thread.
Do I have to allow women to feel pleasure? Are they my slaves? Why can't they just do it themselves?

wishing violence on me

When did it do that, schizo? I don't even know who you are.

Oh, I know that.
Women are superficial, after all.

look mommy, I posted it again!

I'm mtf lol these pooners are all in your head it seems

You get what you deserve. True trans were stigmatized and harassed so you could fuck up and change your mind. Ooopsies!

goalshifting after realizing how dumb she sounds

Enters a discussion between me and a pooner without saying he is nta

Why do you think I am a pooner?

Shit my bad. You are just retarded.

I didn't join in you were replying to me this whole time. Also no one here owes you a nta. It's an anonymous forum everyone is allowed to reply to everything

I think you just can't read. I never said "I want people to kill themselves because I want people to kill themselves." I said I tell people to kill themselves when I want them to kill themselves. Are you retarded?

NTA but you're a dumbass.

you wished self violence on random people u fembrained dingus. also OP is as female as you are, i.e you're both poons. bit of a stretch to think im the schizo when you think you're a male with a dick, two holes.

Yeah, my bad.
I thought you were the "I'm not mature nor manly", I mixed up you two.
You pass, anon, congratulation!
Kill yourself is a verb written in the imperative mood.

The imperative mood is a grammatical mood that forms a command or request.

The imperative mood is used to demand or require that an action be performed.

You gave me the action itself as the reason for your request: your desire to see that anon to kill herself was the reason for which you commanded her to kill herself. Then you changed the reason. From the action of killing herself, your request is now determined by the creation of this thread.
Hope this helps.

why is your first instinct to fuckin psychoanalyze anons as if there's some labyrinth of gender intention behind telling you to kill yourself

the "I'm not mature nor manly"

I've literally never heard of this before

this is what tumblr does to a mf

I'm talking about .
I thought that was also the author of , which is actually you. This is why I thought you were in the first place.

I'm laughing so hard rn

Only on Anon Babble could you have a long-winded schizo argument about whether saying kys is malebrained or fembrained. I love you giuys

Well I'm not and this does look kind of ridiculous from you ngl

I didn't wish violence on you, though. I hope you have a nice day.
Not reading all that.

Thanks.
I didn't sleep well, I should have notice that and weren't one single post, but two different ones.

Not reading all that.

See

Kill yourself.
t. ftm

Stop being a fucking lazy ass.
Laziness is a disgusting trait. I don't understand why people hate trannies so much when the lazy are ten times worse for society.
Disgusting.

The ouroboros.

You don't need to notice it this could've been avoided if you didn't assume everyone you talk to is ftm

I.e. one person only.
There must be a continuity of dialogue.
Anon Babble is not one person.
If I speak with one person, there will be an exchange of opinions.
If I speak with different people, their opinions might conflict with each other.

I’ve never had a unique experience
Do you have discord anon? I’m resonating quite heavily with this atm

And I spoke with someone I thought were one particular ftm with an appreciation for saying kys.
I intended talking with her about her opinion regarding wishing suicide upon other people.
I didn't intend to talk with someone who was not an ftm.
I would have talked to you differently if I knew you were not that specific ftm.
I would have talked to you differently if I knew you were even a different ftm than her.

G detroons

Nobody could have seen this coming

I’m loving this G finally admits she’s just a woman arc

You're autistic.

Gloria in excelsis Deo

And you have ADHD.
How does it feel to know that you will never be able to trully enjoy long form literature?

I honestly don't care.

Based.

More so accepting I’ll never be male and just enbycoping forever. Been looking into getting my sex changed legally to X. The upcoming tranny genocide is also quite a large factor.

Another pooner converted to the enby nation.
/nbg/ when?

G isn't ftm. She's an only fans whore who wears women's clothes and gets fucked in the vag. She's not even transitioning.
Nothing of value is lost.

Been trying to make /nbg/ a thing. It always gets bumped off the board or enbyphobes come in.
I also wouldn’t say this is based, but a necessary evil that comes with having to enter society.

You don't have to worry about the tranny genocide because no one could ever see you as anything but a woman.

Idk man I get some wild stares irl for my voice and how I dress. The girl clothes don’t leave the house.

Been looking into getting my sex changed legally to X

Elon Muskmoding

Nigga you're wearing lipstick

Kek, yeah
That’s just the color of my lips anon….

do you wear panties

I would have talked to you differently if I knew you were not that specific ftm.

I would have talked to you differently if I knew you were even a different ftm than her.

There's no need for this

No

Nobody thinks you're not a woman.

Will you wear panties

go outside

people think I’m not a woman

Hm..
Granted they all think I’m a 15 year old boy or don’t really know what they’re looking at, but I’ll take it over being a girl
No

Skin your face, you injun.
I can bump it in Euro hours.

a necessary evil that comes with having to enter society.

As everything else in society.

That's called having a productive discussion.

You're genuinely delusional.

Ad hominems aren't helpful for a "productive discussion" but ok

Are you threatening me because I said the truth?

Maybe I’ll make nbgen… I’m tempted slightly
Maybe you’re just brainwormed, tbf my voice carries me

Do not speak such utterances about G.
G transcended issues of gender.
They are when the entire discussion is to disprove stereotypes.

no longer want to continue the long legal process to get my name and sex legally changed

no longer want to eventually pay for a painful surgery to get my tits cut off

This is stupid as hell. Eventually, you'll be done with the legal process of changing your name and your surgery will be over with and paid off. Those are temporary things, and you're considering permanently detransitioning over them. Stupid as hell.

has a vagina

has breasts

not on T

sells pictures of her tits and vagina for money

How is being a female whore "transcending gender"? Enbies are truly demented creatures.

Kek
Working on the tits issue, I’m broke

not on t

Not by choice

sells pics

Not in an extremely long time and I think that shits gross now o7

Whores often regret being whores once it's already too late, but you can't erase your past. Once a whore, always a whore, and you'll never be able to remove the pictures of your tits and pussy that anyone can find simply by googling the term "bitchgutzz".

No they aren't

It’s not that deep

Because being female is not a gender it is a sex.
Because being a whore is not a gender it is a sex.
There is no ambiguity in the transition from one sex to another: there is a starting point (being a woman with a healthy body) to a finish line (a butchered female body).
The gender has not being changed.
Changing gender is changing your way of expressing yourself.
If I wake up tomorrow in the body of a woman, will my gender be feminine?
No! Because I will read the stuff that I have read, I will listened to what I have listened and I will watch what I have watched before waking up in the wrong body.
Being a whore is selling your gender, your body, not your soul, not your gender.
Selling your soul is done by those who act feminine to not get clocked. The trannies that voicetrain. The trannies that dress feminine.
Trascending gender means realizing that all these are barriers to the true freedom of expression.
You are not acting feminine because it is a mistake, but it's because you have that aspect that is feminine. You do not dress masculine because you are a man, you dress masculine because you find it more aesthetic and comfy. So if you act feminine and dress masculine today, and act masculine and dress feminine tomorrow, you are an enby.
If you do not force femininity or masculinity, you are an enby.
As it is written in the Scriptures, this is the true Christian way, and I am one.

Sex and gender are the same thing.

Being a whore is not a sex

/thread

admits there is such a thing as being in the wrong body

still can't understand the existence of trans people

Extreme autism.

It's because it's just an excuse to detransition and go back to living as a woman. She can't admit that she just regrets it and doesn't actually want to be male. When it comes to detransitioners, it's never their fault.

Because being a whore is not a gender it is a sex.

Because being a whore is not a gender it is a profession.*

Being a whore is selling your gender, your body, not your soul, not your gender.

Being a whore is selling your body, not your soul, not your gender.*

Copypasting different posts here.

i read sooo many books bro

The gender has not being changed.

I will listened to what I have listened

What

He's fixing the mistypes that were there, I think

I genuinely think he's drunk or something when he's posting

the trannies that dress feminine are selling their souls

but enbies are based because they dress feminine

They're taking away trans rights because of you. I empathize with you I really do I can only imagine the peer pressure to poon out at the first sign of gender bender disorder in the 2010's, but god damnit.

You don't have to socially detransition and you don't have to stop testosterone. If you want the effects of the male hormone then keep taking it. You don't have to get top surgery if you don't want to. If you pass without the surgery now you probably won't need it in the future. Medical technology today cannot give you a dick. Maybe it will improve in the future but not in the near term with the way things are going. Just do what you want and don't give a fuck what other people do or think about you.

t. started e at 30 and will enbycope/manmode for life

Not in sociology.
True. I didn't proofread it.
But you fuckers are not in the wrong body.
None of you read Holly Jackson while they listen to Taylor Swift's folklore.
A lot of you play dwarf fortress, team fortress, fucking hearts of iron 4.
If I ever wake up in a woman's body, I will not cut my tits and use my arms meat to make a dick to plaster on my pelvis.
That is delusional.
Expressing yourself as a feminine man is more than enough for a normal person. Not for a tranny. They want to change their sex, not their gender, and their gender is clearly masculine.

I’m just confused by the whole thing, I’ve never read so much word salad come from someone who wasn’t a politician

wtf has this thread devolved into

i will never be a woman

peeners

this is literally the poonboi version of "I know you are but what am I"

You said

Being a whore is selling your gender [...] not your gender.

In the same sentence

proving us right

*again

So if you act feminine and dress masculine today, and act masculine and dress feminine tomorrow, you are an enby

If you do not force femininity or masculinity, you are an enby

You're literally enforcing masculinity and femininity when you say that androgynous people are "enbies" instead of men and women. You're saying that someone who behaves both masculinely and femininely and who dresses both masculinely and femininely isn't an actual man/woman.

Yup.
No, I just was copy pasting the stuff I wrote on discord some months ago

In reality, sex and gender are the same thing.

Some of us aren’t men and women, but people can totally be andro and cis

I don't think proofreading would be able to fix this literally none of this makes sense

You are a woman.

For all you know, he might be a drunk bookophile politician.
But yeah, the text indeed is confusing, I still don't get the fuck his definition of gender is. Is it stereotypes, personality, interests pr something? I'm genuinely curious.

No, I just was copy pasting the stuff I wrote on discord some months ago

It's "I was just" and not "just was". Never copy paste again

Most men don't want to have tits. In fact, most men who have tits do cut them off, including cis men with gyno. Because gender is a part of sex.

androgynous people are "enbies" instead of men and women

Everyone is androgynous. Realizing it stops you from forcing gender conformist behaviour.

Inb4 what do you mean by gender conformist behaviour

Gender conformist behaviour means that you adapt your behaviour to that of the majority of the individuals of the sex you are trying to represent. With this definition, a tranny is gender conformist, because they force a certain gender expression that is found in the majority of the individuals of the other sex.

isn't an actual man/woman.

We are always born either men, or woman or intersex. You cannot change it. You can change your gender.
So you can be a theyfab or a theymab. You stop being a hemab when you stop forcing masculine behaviour in order to not be gender-ambiguous.
It's called studying gender fluid theory before theyfabs completely wrecked the system.

Trannies don't reinforce stereotypes more than cis people do

Gender is being masculine or feminine, anon.
Flamer fags are a great example.

Inb4 they are men

Well, no shit, Sherlock. We are not talking about sex, but about gender.

this

inb4 oldshits

looking attractive shouldn't be the most important thing

Flamer fags gender and sex are both male.

Everyone is androgynous

Androgynous means having characteristics of both sexes. Not everyone is androgynous. In fact, trans people, by definition, are androgynous.

a tranny is gender conformist

So an ftm who gets top surgery and bottom surgery but has long hair and wears dresses is conforming to which gender exactly?

We are always born either men, or woman or intersex. You cannot change it. You can change your gender

You just contradicted yourself. Man and woman are genders. You said you can change your gender but can't change whether you're a man or a woman. Actual braindead argument.
Also intersex people are either men or women.

Is it stereotypes, personality, interests

All of those.

Gender expression, or gender presentation, is a person's behavior, mannerisms, and appearance that are socially associated with gender, namely femininity or masculinity.

Thanks.

Never copypaste

Nah, I will not post stuff that you faggots can learn online.
Most men don't care.
Agreed. Fuck both.

Gender is sex.

Men who develop breasts due to gyno chop their breasts off.

lexicon.library.lgbt/definitions/flamer/

lexicon.library.lgbt/definitions/effeminate/
lexicon.library.lgbt/definitions/feminine/
It is not.

Gender and gender stereotypes are two different things you absolute moron.

Fuck both

You are cis.

No gender is a preference flamers aren't women unless they say they are

5'11

pooner

YWNBAP!

Androgynous means having characteristics of both sexes.

Of both genders.

A mixture of typical and atypical expression may be described as androgynous.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_expression

So an ftm who gets top surgery and bottom surgery but has long hair and wears dresses is conforming to which gender exactly?

She is androgynous. And if we are going to talk about if she is more feminine or more masculine... I'd say more feminine, because (I don't really support the theory, but for the sake of argument) she has female socialization.

Man and woman are genders.

Man is an adult male human. Woman is an adult female human.
Gender is masculine and feminine. A woman can be feminine, a man can be masculine.

Also intersex people are either men or women.

In the day to day life, yes. But we are talking about sociologic analysis. In the day to day life, no one cares how you express yourself. They care about stereotypes. And, although man and woman are sexes, we use the gender stereotypes associated with said genders to speed up the process of socialization.
InterSEX people are born interSEX. they get assigned a gender, which I agree, is still used as a synonym of sex, in day to day life, not sociology. Their sex is still intersex. They might get their gender (i.e. the sex on their ids) changed, if they grow differenly from the one that has been assigned at birth.
Some countries, like germany, introduced "other" as a sex in their IDs.

If you actually read the Wikipedia article you'd conclude that people can express their gender in any way they want meaning that someone can dress feminine and still express themselves to be masculine

i feel like most people live in this area where they don't really give a shit about gender one way or another, which is probably also why it's so hard for cissoids to grasp the concept of gender dysphoria.
depoon if you want to, just know that if you also detransition socially and you are a gigapassoid and this tall you will essentially be living as a trans woman which is life on hardcore difficulty. you will also have to put in vastly more effort to actually reverse your male puberty than to just keep injecting testosterone weekly, and even then it may never be enough as is the case with most trannies.

Indeed.
There are billions of retards who don't understand it.
I'm not going to say that if 0.0001% of the cis people understand it then they are not enforcing gender stereotypes.
So, at the end of the day, I will act as a cisM, instead of doing retarded paperwork to get an X stamped on my ID.
Gender, as in gender identity, gender expression, or gender roles?

Of course, one action doesn't determine your gender.
Sociology is a social science, imprecise.
Gender is a spectrum.

Yes so fag flamers aren't women

Of both genders

Sex and gender are the same thing.

She is androgynous

So are you saying that trans people don't conform to stereotypes after all? Curious.

blablabla

Your definition of gender isn't supported by anything or anyone. You are factually incorrect.

we are talking about sociologic analysis

No, I'm talking about reality. "Intersex" isn't a sex, they are still either male or female, they just have a birth defect. If you think a woman who is born with a big clit isn't a female then logically you wouldn't think ftms are female either, yet clearly you do.

gender (i.e. the sex on their ids)

I thought you said gender was just the clothes you wear?

It might seem like too much work but I think it's worth it cuz at this point detransing might be harder, i get the depression but idk you can either retreat into shell or put the effort into being worthwhile, up to you. shit sucks.

Gender as in sex. Gender, gender identity, gender expression, and gender roles are all different things. If you replace the word "gender" for "sex", as in, sexual identity, sexual expression, and sex roles, the meaning remains the exact same.

Gender is a spectrum

So is autism.

I want to add, there is that right wing comic who is dressed as a woman all the time, but at the same time he is saying that he is a he/him.
But you can still say that he is not really pretending to "own the libs", you can say that he is an actual tranny.
People who do these speculations are trying to infer his gender identity from his gender expression.

Being an enby means expressing your true gender identity, without forcing gender expressions that your gender role requires you to have.

Fags are men, yes.
Some of them are feminine, some are masculine.
FEM-BOYS, anon...
They are clearly not women.
That would be the lesbians.

This is completely unrelated and it won't make flamers women

the long legal process to get my name and sex legally changed

It's like two forms and one court appearance wtf are you on about

So their gender is male.

Exactly so feminine fags are men and trans women are women

Sex and gender are the same thing.

Not in sociology.

So are you saying that trans people don't conform to stereotypes after all? Curious.

They partially do try to conform (their goal is to pass). But you cannot fully adhere to a stereotype 24/7.
They will get "clocked".
Stereotypes are concepts, ideals, not realities.
There is no ideal human in reality.

Inb4 logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-of-the-Beard

There are feminine, masculine and androgynous behaviours. I do not agree that trans do enough to not get clocked. They only focus to the gender expression of their fashion choices and voicetraining. But having all masculine hobbies clocks them. They are not women to me ("women" as in "the gender role of the female sex").

Your definition of gender

I posted wikipedia articles, you didn't read them, clearly. You didn't even provide counter evidence.

I thought you said gender was just the clothes you wear?

Not only that.

Here's a cool fucking idea

If you act feminine in one moment but "masc" in another, or wear "masc" clothing, nothing changes about you. You're not nonbinary, you just forgot to be sexist.

Can't believe you're protecting the most sexist detachment of Queers: NBs

Sexual identity refers to one's self-perception in terms of romantic or sexual attraction towards others,[1] though not mutually exclusive, and can be different from romantic identity[

What does who you are attracted to have to do with gender?
Also, post a definition for sexual expression, because there is no wikipedia article about it.

No, their sex is male.
No, read .
It's about gender expression, anon.

I don’t know how two people can be arguing over a point and both be completely wrong
It’s truly astounding

Not in sociology

But in reality.

blablabla

So which is it? Do trans people conform to stereotypes or do they not conform to stereotypes enough? Is a mtf who has enough female hobbies a woman?
And if the ftm I mentioned passes as a crossdressing man, how is he conforming? He's seen as a man, therefore he's not behaving accordingly to his gender role.

b-but you didn't read my wikipedia articles!!

Kek. You can't even have a discussion with someone while using your own words. Pathetic.

Not only that

So when a trans person gets their ID changed does that mean they are now that gender?

Sex and gender are the same thing.
Shut up, whore.

nothing changes about you.

Nothing physical, I agree. My sex does not change.
But the types of actions, as you correctly noted...:

If you act feminine in one moment but "masc" in another

...do change. "Masc" and "feminine" are gender expressions.

You don't determine someone else's gender based on their expression their gender is determined by their identity

And gender expressions are not gender, so your gender does not change either.

Either contribute or let the men talk.
Yet you noticed that actions differ in nature.

Men and women tend to behave differently precisely because they are different genders.

Ok ok, we are getting somewhere.
Your gender identity is then an ever-changing aspect of yourself. It is changing based on your self perception.

Gender identity is the personal sense of one's own gender.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity
Because we are not an all-knowing God, we don't always know our gender identity.
We therefore partially know it by how we decide to express it, and by what we decide to supress too.
From an external point of view, only our expressions of gender determine how other people call us.
In conclusion, we don't know what our gender identity actually is, and only through gender expressions we can deduce it.

No, it isn't.

Men and women tend to behave differently because of their different bodies.
But at the same time, understanding and making yours those gender expressions of the gender role of the other sex is condemned by normies and trannies, but not by enbies.

It doesn't have to change it depends on the person. It's different for different people that's the point you're missing

Are you pulling definitions out of your ass?
Post the definition of sexual expression, faggot.

Because of their different bodies and minds. Men and women don't think the same.

I agree with the fact that gender identity is different for each person. This is why I claim that everyone is androgynous.

I'm not arguing about "gender expression". I'm arguing about gender. And gender is the same as sex. The way you express your gender/sex doesn't change your gender/sex, meaning "gender expression" is meaningless.

But your brain can understand feminine ideas, no?

You do understand gender identity, right?
I use gender as in "infered gender identity".

truth chicxulub impact

Some people do identify as androgynous but others don't

What does that have to do with what I said? Men's brains function differently from women's brains and that's why they behave differently in general, simple as.
And I don't give a shit if a ftm tranny wears a dress or if a mtf tranny shaves her head. As long as they are medically transitioning and suffer from gender dysphoria they are trans. You only see people getting mad over other people's gender expressions on /tttt/ because the people from this board are brain wormed and constantly paranoid that cis people will try to genocide us if we behave a certain way, because they fucking will.

I don't believe in identifying as anything. I believe in being something and/or transitioning to something.

"androgynous" is so redundant.

The standards of "masc" and "fem" will always shift. It's not something inside of us. It's just more behavior we learn and abide by.

Maybe I understand what you mean now.
I do not consider gender identity as "the gender role I identify with". I understand gender identity as the "gender role that can be inferred from your gender expressions".
If a person claims and believes to be a woman (as in the gender role of the female sex), but dresses, acts and does the vast majority of things as a man (as in the gender role of the female sex), then he is not a woman, he is either lying or delusional.

Men's brains function differently from women's brains and that's why they behave differently in general, simple as.

*In general* women and men act the same, because they are both humans.
Sometimes they differentiate the way their think and act, because of various reasons, one of which is the gender socialization they had when they grew up, other times because of their sex and their brain structure, other times because of other reason not related to gender expression.

You only see people getting mad over other people's gender expressions on /tttt/ because the people from this board are brain wormed and constantly paranoid that cis people will try to genocide us if we behave a certain way

Then what is gender dysphoria, if not the delusion that you have to change your gender expressions of fashion, voice and body structure?

ftms who replied in a hostile way are ngmi. Once you live as a man for a while you can forget how dysphoria felt for long periods of time. This poon will never depoon and if he does he’ll be miserable.
The judiciary process of transitioning is a hassle, and since I’m assuming since he got test at 16 with supportive parents he’s also never worked a day in his life and doesn’t know how to be an adult, so the legal processes and scheduling probably bears heavy on him. Switching to 3 week injections would be my advice

being something

and/or transitioning to something.

So you do believe that you are a man that tries to conform to the physical structure of a female human being?

Exactly! Everyone is androgynous, you can be more masculine or more feminine, and only in a specific moment in history.

Always nice to explain gender fluid theory to normies.

It doesn't matter what you consider it, there's a set definition and it's on wikipedia

Which you don't follow, fuckwit.
Rules for thee, but not for me?

women and men act the same, because they are both humans

Now you're just being dense on purpose.

what is gender dysphoria

A medical condition where your brain and your body don't align, and that causes you to feel repulsed by certain sex characteristics your body has, making you want to change them, and making you miserable until you do change them. Gender expression is irrelevant here. What matters is the actual sex/gender, which is why trans people take HRT to change their SEX hormones and have surgeries that change their SEXUAL characteristics. There's a reason why we used to be called transsexuals and why SRS used to be called a sex change.
The reason most trans people "conform" to gender roles is the same reason most cis people do; it's easier. If a trans man puts on a dress he'll get beaten up just like a cis man would. The enforcement of gender roles affects trans people the same way it affects cis people. That's why I used the feminine ftm and the masculine mtf example before.
But, in general, a lot of "gender roles" actually have a lot to do with how your brain is structured and whether your body functions on T or E, meaning that most trans people are also just content with sticking with a gender role or simply being moderately androgynous (which trans people are by default since they have characteristics of both sexes).
I'll give you an example: if tomorrow, gender roles simply ceased to exist, and everyone was free to express themselves in any way without fear of judgment, I would still take HRT and have SRS, because I'm not transitioning so I can dress a certain way. That would be retarded. I am transitioning because I want to change my sex characteristics, and because dysphoria makes it so I need to do it to live happily.

It agrees with me it literally says here your gender identity can be different from expression

A fully transitioned MTF isn't a man. A fully transitioned FTM isn't a woman. They lack the sex characteristics that define males and females so you can't objectively say they're one or the other.

I am following it

A medical condition where your brain and your body don't align

Brain is part of the body.

change their SEX hormones and have surgeries that change their SEXUAL characteristics

But their brains remain the same, neuronline.sfn.org/scientific-research/hormones-and-the-developing-brain.

There's a reason why we used to be called transsexuals and why SRS used to be called a sex change.

But you have GENDER dysphoria, not sex dysphoria.

If a trans man puts on a dress he'll get beaten up just like a cis man would.

No, why? Women with hirsutism don't get beaten, nor do men with gyno.

characteristics of both sexes

They have the genes.
Using E doesn't change your sex. An eunuch is a man, anon.

I am transitioning because I want to change my sex characteristics,

So you want to express your gender identity (wikipedia definition) through your sex characteristics.
How does it make you feel that your brain is male, and not female? Do you wanna change it?

it literally says here your gender identity can be different from expression

I agree with that too.

It agrees with me

So you also agree about the "rules for thee but not for me statement"?
You are basically a schizo, anon. Completely delusional.

Just read what it says on wikipedia your gender expression can be different from your gender identity

They lack the sex characteristics that define males and females so you can't objectively say they're one or the other.

They have the genes of male and female... Or intersex, to be precise.

I am following it

Yeah, of course you are. Because it agrees with you. Once it doesn't, like with the fact that gender and sex aren't the same thing, they you stop following it.

Your gender identity can differ from the sex assigned at birth.
It can also differ from gender expression.

Yeah, of course you are. Because it agrees with you.

This means that I'm right. You provided this link, your source is literally proving me right and you wrong and now you're talking about random ass bs to distract from it

So you finally agree?

This means that I'm right.

If you agree with something that something makes you right?

your source is literally proving me right

No it does not.
I pointed out where I agree with you, and where I dont.

You posted the wikipedia article because you thought it agrees with you when it doesn't in reality

Brain is part of the body

Never said it wasn't. When I say body, I mean sex characteristics.

But their brains remain the same

If you don't believe males and females have different minds I don't know what to tell you.

you have GENDER dysphoria, not sex dysphoria

Sex and gender are the same thing. Again, we are transsexuals. We get sex changes. We are sex dysphoric. The only reason we call it "transgender" nowadays is so people don't think it is a sexuality.

No, why?

Men who crossdress get treated like shit. Don't pretend that's not true.

Usually E doesn't change your sex

The "sex change" part of transitioning is the SRS. An eunuch is a man who doesn't have testicles and doesn't produce male levels of testosterone. A trans woman on HRT has female levels of estrogen, while eunuchs do not.

So you want to express your gender identity

No because I don't believe in "gender identity". I believe in sex characteristics.

How does it make you feel that your brain

You previously said that there isn't such a thing as a male and a female brain. Which is it?
True transsexual men have male brains and true transsexual women have female brains. And no, I like my brain quite a bit.

Only with what I said.
And no, I do not agree that the personal sense of one self is the sex.

So by your definition trans men and trans women are intersex.

Sex and gender are different therefore people with a male sex can identify with a woman gender

When I say body, I mean sex characteristics.

And your brain structure is different between sexes. So your claim that your brain and your body don't align is false. Your brain and body share the same sex characteristics.

If you don't believe males and females have different minds I don't know what to tell you.

First of all, minds or brains? These are two different things.
Second of all, the brain structure of a male don't become female through hormonal intervention outside the uterus of the mother.

Sex and gender are the same thing.

You are deluded if you think that. You literally posted how gender identity and sex can differ.

Men who crossdress get treated like shit.

It doesn't have anything to do with sex.
It has to do with gender expression.

No because I don't believe in "gender identity

Then why do you quote my wikipedia page?

The "sex change" part of transitioning is the SRS

But it is not changed. Genes don't change through srs.

You previously said that there isn't such a thing as a male and a female brain

You didn't understand me properly.

No, trannies are of the sex assigned to them at birth.
Intersex means your sex chromosomes didn't activate in the mother's uterus completely or properly

Inb4 what means properly

Outside of human intervention (like a roided mother), it means that some parts had a mutation that lead them to be not expressed. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_expression
True.

And it's fine if they don't pass either

True.
This is why I disagree with the wikipedia definition in the first place.
You infer the gender identity from their gender expression.
According to wikipedia, you just need to believe it.

Christian theologists used to debate something similar for a long time: do you go to heaven through faith alone or through works also?
Works are the fruits of faith.
Similarly, gender expression, imo, are the fruits of gender identity.
Even if you don't pass, your gender identity remains both the same (you are always X) and ever-changing (comparing X to the gender roles of a certain moment in history, makes you more or less masculine, feminine or androgynous), and ever-evolving (your X changes with your interraction with other people, with knowing new ways of express yourself, with introspective work).

And your brain structure is different between sexes

Yes. The point is that gender dysphoria is a birth defect, much like being intersex is. You're born with characteristics of both sexes.

the brain structure of a male doesn't become female

It doesn't need to, because mtfs already have female brain structures.

You literally posted how gender identity and sex can differ

No, I didn't. Where?

It has to do with gender expression

And what does that have to do with what I said? I said that trans men who crossdress get treated like shit because, in general, men who crossdress get treated like shit. The reason trans man who passes wouldn't want to wear a dress in public isn't that he "conforms" to gender roles, but that he doesn't want to risk being treated like shit.

Then why do you quote my Wikipedia page?

I didn't even read it. The other anon did.

But it is not changed

Someone who doesn't have a vagina or an uterus and doesn't produce eggs isn't a woman by definition. Someone who doesn't have a penis or testicles and doesn't produce sperm isn't a man by definition. Therefore a fully transitioned ftm isn't a woman and a fully transitioned mtf isn't a man.

You didn't understand me properly

Then enlighten me.

Passing means adhering to a certain gender role.
Gender roles are ever-evolving.
You can pass today, but not tomorrow.
A mtf in the 1600s would not pass in trousers, but now they do.

If a ftm lacks female sex characteristics and a mtf lacks make sex characteristics, how can they be female/male?
Who you were isn't who you are.

After you realized it doesn't prove your point you disagree with it. Actual rules for thee but not for me moment

A mtf in the 1600s would not pass in trousers, but now they do

Now they do because we have hormones and surgeries. Without them they still wouldn't pass even in a dress. Because gender expression is irrelevant and physical sex is what actually matters.

The point is that gender dysphoria is a birth defect,

Intersex is not a birth defect. And you are not born with gender dysphoria, because they develop gender identity around 6 years of age.

Most children between ages 18 and 24 months can recognize and label gender groups. They may identify others as girls, women or feminine. Or they may label others as boys, men or masculine. Most also label their own gender by the time they reach age 3.

However, society tends to have a narrow view of gender. As a result, some children learn to behave in ways that may not reflect their gender identity. At age 5 or 6, most children are rigid about gender and preferences. These feelings tend to become more flexible with age.

mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/children-and-gender-identity/art-20266811

It doesn't need to, because mtfs already have female brain structures.

They don't. They have similarities, but not enough to be able to call them feminine.
You are still a man.

Where?

Gender identity can correlate with a person's assigned sex or *can differ from it*.

Gender identity, the personal sense, can differ from the assigned sex.

The other anon did.

Either start namefagging or don't talk to me.

Yeah cis people identify with their sex and if they don't then they're trans glad you finally found that conclusion

Either start namefagging or don't talk to me.

Stop name fagging and go back to wherever you came from

They do have the sex characteristics of their sex: they have genes.

After you realized it doesn't prove your point you disagree with it

Not really. I already posted my ideas.
You are trying to use your lack of rigid definitions to disprove my rigid definitions. Semantics, nothing more.
Reread my posts instead of asking me questions about things that I have already talked about just to say that, according to your flawed definitions, I am wrong.

Now they do because we have hormones and surgeries.

And you don't need them to pass.

Without them they still wouldn't pass even in a dress

Just cut off your dick before 14 years of age.
Also, only from a distance trannies pass.
Once you look at them close, they get often times clocked. Once you speak to them, they never pass.

Intersex is not a birth defect

Yes, it is.

And you are not born with gender dysphoria

Yes, you are.

because they develop gender identity around 6 years of age

I've felt dysphoric over my genitals since I was 4. I just didn't understand or know how to express it.

They don't

They do.

38005168

I didn't post that. Gender and sex are the same thing.

start namefagging or don't talk to me

Namefaggots when they have to use basic logic and pattern recognition:

Cut down, not across.
You will need this information once the delusion will wear off.
Of course, reread:

Your definitions are wrong by definition. You're mad I'm using the actual definitions

too much effort to never even be actually male anyways

Never understood this. You're still going to be a man?

The wikipedia definition is objectively true you can disagree with it all you want

They already have the sex characteristics

Except they don't.

you don't need them to pass

So if someone who looks like a man puts on a dress people will start magically seeing them as a woman?

ad hominem

Ok.

Weren't you the one arguing that telling people who disagree with you to kill themselves is childish?

Yes, it is.

My bad, you are right.
Gender dysphoria is.

Yes, you are.

No you are not, the kid doesn't understand gender still.

I've felt dysphoric over my genitals since I was 4. I just didn't understand or know how to express it.

Read what I quoted in the website.

Namefaggots when they have to use basic logic and pattern recognition:

Then we conclude this discussion right here.

Knowing when to use it is not childish.
You are retarded, like the women you larp as.

Oh lol I didn't even realize that's what he meant by cut down not across

You are right

I know. Intersex conditions are birth defects. So is GD.

No you are not

Like I said, I didn't even know what sex was when I realized my genitals were repulsive to me.

Read what I quoted in the website

No.

Then we conclude this discussion right here

Thank fucking god.

Objectively true

Social science definitions

it's ok when I do it

Sure thing, Timmy.

definitions

Yes they're true definitions

Every single one of the arguments you've used up to this point are purely based on social science.

like the women you larp as

And is this woman in the room with us right now?

You decide to ignore my points that I have been making, simply stating your positions without argumenting them.
Deluded retards.

Yet you can't disprove my position

That's exactly what I am saying.
You don't post kys and then say that you wish them a nice day, as in You don't start an exchange with ad hominems and kys. You do it at the end.
Yes, and? Not objective truth.
No, they are not.
But there are some on this thread who wish they were.

Which is?
There are at least 3 people in here who wanna talk with me and none of them namefagged to present a structured thesis.

But there are some on this thread who wish they were.

And this upsets you? What's the problem with that?

It does not upset me, don't project that shit on me.

What's the problem with that?

It's a type of name calling. When someone is deluded by the fact that they wanna be women, you point it out.

It doesn't really matter what my position is because no matter what I tell you, you will disagree with it. I could literally tell you word for word what you think, and you'd reply with "actually anon, I'm gonna take a different position now"

You you admit you're objectively wrong?

It does not upset me,

proceeds to describe why it upsets him

You're too autistic to comprehend your own hypocrisy.

It doesn't really matter what my position is because no matter what I tell you, you will disagree with it.

As I thought, you have no position to uphold.
I could literally tell you word for word what you think, and you'd reply with "actually anon, I'm gonna take a different position now"

what you think

You wanted me to disprove your position, but now you want me to... correct your understanding of my position?

No.
There is no objective wrong.

Namecalling upsets you

What?

Your points are sociology bullshit and you actually believe enbies are a thing. Nothing you say is factual. You're no different than some blue haired man-hating feminist trying to talk to me about social studies in my eyes, and I am incapable of taking you seriously, yes.

Then there's no point in arguing at all if you can't tell right from wrong.

Also, your points aren't even your points. You can't even argue without linking 10 different wikipedia articles as if you're incapable of original thought.

Your points are sociology bullshit and you actually believe enbies are a thing

Nothing you say is factual

You're no different than some blue haired man-hating feminist trying to talk to me about social studies in my eyes, and I am incapable of taking you seriously, yes.

can't argue against the truth

Many such cases.

Objective right and wrong are the only right and wrong that exist.

Why do you have sources that agree with you??

I already refuted all these claims in this thread. I recommend you to reread.
And the next time, try pointing out what you didn't understand and what you disagree with, instead of using word salads.

You wanted me to disprove your position

I didn't that's why I didn't say anything about my position all I did was point your hypocrisy out to you

Name an example of something you refuted

You can't disprove my position

>You wanted me to disprove your position

I didn't

Jump off the 9th floor, anon.

Why can't you speak for yourself? Why do you have to link social studies that don't present any facts?

We can hold hands and jump together

About gd not being a birth defect

Objective right and wrong are the only right and wrong that exist

Literally, yes. Otherwise we're just arguing over our own likes and dislikes, which is pointless.

Did you refute that everything you've said up until now is sociology bullshit and that you believe enbies are a thing?

You didn't actually disprove anything there. Gender dysphoria has to do with your sex. If a child feels disgusted with their genitals when they're 4, without understand what gender even is, how is that sentiment influenced by society and gender roles?
What a fucking moron.

Why can't you speak for yourself?

I did.

Why do you have to link social studies that don't present any facts?

This is called scientific consensus. I use it to support my claims, use a third position to argue with anons and to use rigid definition. If I disagree with something, I present my argumentations, like I did with the definition of gender identity.
Can't do, as a white christian man.
You are lgbt, you need that victim mentality, as often times shown in this thread.

There is proof that gender dysphoria has a genetic component

Social science is the real science.

Can't do,

No problem sometimes people need a push in the right direction

white christian man

Who wishes he was a woman.

I know how you feel. I like being a woman, but the medical process becomes a drag after a while. Having to order and take E for the rest of my life, having to save up for surgeries of questionable effectiveness, yet another document needs changing. And after all this I'll never be fully female.

If you were MtF I'd say don't worry about surgeries, you can pass and function fine without them but for FtMs it's tricky because I don't see how one can pass with visible tits or function as a man with no dick. FtM transition is more hardcore I agree. Probably why so many detransition.

As MtF I've decided not to bother with surgeries, I changed my passport and that's it. Gas board has been sir'ing me all day because they still have my male name, I don't give a fuck anymore, I just want my heating back on.

Kek.
Yes. That gd is not a birth defect (not a sociological argument) and the fact that enbies are a thing is a sociological concept which you consider bs. So I did the one thing you asked me to do: refute one thing. And about enbies... well, it's like discussing metaphysics with a scientist. It's impossible.

It has to do with sex

It has to do with gender, not sex.
It is in the definition.

And? Everything has it.
Define real science.
Yeah, that's what I am doing. Just. Do. It.

Trannies insulting cis people by calling them trans

The irony. You hate yourself more than we hate (You).

GD is a birth defect. The argument you used focuses on the social aspects of gender and not the biological aspect of it. And it also doesn't prove anything, it's pure speculation.

It has to do with gender, not sex

Gender is sex. Gender dysphoric people feel dysphoria over their sex characteristics.

You're on the tranny board arguing with trannies about tranny issues and you believe in the enbie cope. Men don't believe in enbies.

The argument you used focuses on the social aspects of gender and not the biological aspect of it.

And you didn't use any argument whatsoever.

Gender dysphoric people feel dysphoria over their sex characteristics.

Which are gender expressions.
Because they have sex characteristics, like sex genes.

telling someone to kill themselves multiple times

Are you ftm?

you didn't use any argument whatsoever

So you admit that every single one of your arguments are based on sociology bullshit and not biological reality?

Which are gender expressions

Having a penis or a vagina is a gender expression?

Having a vaginoplasty is a gender expression.

And what does that have to do with what I said?

No, ftms stop after a while.
They wish you good day.

Men don't believe in enbies.

They used to.
Gospel of Thomas, for example.
Now they don't, just like men don't read because retarded women took over erudite activities, like reading and discussing philosophy, sociology etc.

They used to

You know what, you're a very laughable individual. Have a good day.

SRS is vaginoplasty, no?
And desiring to obtain one is gender expression.
You having a penis or a vagina has nothing to do with gender. Having them is about sex.
You have issues with gender. You want a certain gender expression. You want to mutilate your sex to have a certain gender expression, which is to have a body as much as possible similar to the female sex.
If I cut off your hair, it doesn't make you suffer from alopecia.
Nor it does mean that you are more biologically similar to a person with alopecia than a person who has hair.
You can only play pretend.

Imagine thinking women understand extremist positions... Lol. Lmao even.
Godspeed to you, anon.

I never mentioned SRS in that post. I said that gender dysphoric people feel dysphoric over their sex characteristics. Please, learn to read.

nta, but do men actually not do the erudite activities that you've mentioned anymore?

cutting off hair is the same as removing an organ

Are you genuinely autistic? Have you ever been diagnosed?

Oh yeah, I agree with that.
But I was not talking about penis and vagina, then.
I was talking their genes.
Please, learn to read.

Believing in enbies is an extremist position? If it is, women understand it quite well.

No. I said gender dysphoric people feel dysphoria over their sex characteristics because you claimed that GD is about gender and not sex.
You mentioning genes has nothing to do with that, because it's an argument of yours that I don't care about and have not mentioned.
My point is that GD is about sex because trans people feel dysphoric over sex parts, not over whether or not they can wear a dress. I couldn't care less about the social aspects of gender.

I am still trying to find them. 2022 leftypol was the last bastion of good internet discussions. I still can't find a good substitute.
Now you either study alone, or you don't, as it seems.
A better example would be putting acid on your scalp to prevent further growth.
Anon... Have you ever spoken to women?
They like the idea of it, just like they like the idea of being bookworms. But they are superficial. They don't know how to justify their positions, they can only... Put books around their house and dress like a dude.

You mentioning genes has nothing to do with that, because it's an argument of yours that I don't care about

Lmao. Well, here you go with your anti-scientific position.

not over whether or not they can wear a dress. I couldn't care less about the social aspects of gender

Yeah, neither do I. I was talking about genes.

Wrong pic lol.

better example would be putting acid on your scalp to prevent further growth

If it effectively stops hair growth then the person achieved their goal of no longing having hair, just like an ftm who gets a vaginectomy has achieved his goal of not having a vagina.

I believe in genes. I just don't think your chromosomes matter more than your genitals, no.

I was talking about genes

No, you said people with GD don't feel dysphoria over their sex characteristics.

But they are suffering from alopecia, nor they are "something between a healthy person and a person with alopecia", they are just a mutilated delusional person with a healthy genetic baggage.

They are also not a person with hair, just like the ftm is not a woman.

I just don't think your chromosomes matter more than your genitals, no.

Your chromosomes are what determine your genitals. So to change your sex characteristics you need to start from the genes, while any intervention upon the genitals is a gender expression.

No, you said people with GD don't feel dysphoria over their sex characteristics.

I said that they have dysphoria over their gender expressions, which comprehend having a vaginectomy performed on them.

They are a woman/man without hair, just like ftms are women without tits and mtfs are men without a dick, generally speaking.

You can change your sex characteristics by simply changing your sex characteristics. If you grow breasts, you've grown breasts. You don't need to change your genetics to do it. If you remove your balls, you've removed your balls. Your genes have no say in this.

I said that they have dysphoria over their gender expressions

A MTF doesn't feel dysphoric over her neopussy, she feels dysphoric over her penis. Are you dumb?

There is no such a thing as a woman without a vagina. By definition a female has eggs. If you don't have female sex characteristics you're not female.

You can change your sex characteristics by simply changing your sex characteristics.

Of course... But you won't change your sex by doing so.
You are a man who ate E and cut off his dick. It's not like roided sportswomen stop being women because their clits grow. The sex is still the same.

A MTF doesn't feel dysphoric over her neopussy, she feels dysphoric over her penis.

A MTF desires to get rid of it.
That is an action.
That is gender expression.
He can suppress it, but the desire is still there.
His gender identity doesn't correspond to his sex, simple as. He desires to act upon it, he desires to express himself as a woman. He is not a woman and his sex doesn't change by enabling his delusions, but his gender dysphoria goes away once the gender expression is enacted upon the sex.

So a woman who got her uterus removed because of a tumor is a... man? And needs to change her sex?

A man without a penis is not a man.

blablabla

Has nothing to do with my affirmation that people with GD feel dysphoric over their sex characteristics.

A man without a penis is not a man.

Poor penis tumor survivors.

A person without female characteristics isn't a woman. Not necessarily a man, either.

Don't worry, they can just identify as enbies.

They do have female characteristics tho.
Their genes.

That's not a female characteristic.

Lmaooooo.

Lmaaooooooo.
This is what become of Anon Babble.
Godspeed, anons.
I'm out.

Have a good day.