Every man/tranny that rejects the idea of the patriarchy and instead insists on the existence of the matriarchy make...

there's a cabal of rich and powerful men working together to benefit men and oppress women

stopped reading here, you have no idea what you're actually arguing against yet you wrote an entire essay against it. cool.

Rule by mothers really sucks though

holy shit someone who understands the anthropological meaning of patriarchy

it doesn't happen automatically

Yeah it happens when agricultural begins because control and protection of a single space and location is absolutely necessary. So wanna go back to being nomads?

Masculinity = active by nature
Femininity = passive by nature
The masculine will always control the highest eschlons of power and resources simply due to being more aggressive.
The feminine power is enchantment, reliant on gaining the favor of the masculine. That seems like an unfair power to a weak willed feminine male who hasn't yet tried to practice enchantment himself, but also fails to be masculine.
Trying to compete directly with the masculine as a feminine doesn't work, the masculine will be much more aggressive and ruthless.
So yes patriarchy exists and the fact that some women get gifted things by men they have enchanted doesn't change that.

i literally said it's better in many respects than the forms of social organization that came before it. i don't want to go back to what we had before it. i want to keep going forward and building new systems that are better suited to the new material conditions we face as a result of technological change.

bonobos are fully aware that you cannot just tell everyone u are free to be genderless bi ped and u do not have to be burdened with the role of your gender. Your role is given to you so your child can have less competition for resources and continue the hierarchy to their kids which is a paradox only broken by stopping the roles which also means no kids.

patriarchy is about the ownership of women and children by fathers as a means of ensuring the continued reproduction of the system, and about making the highest ambition and duty of people designated by society as men "become a patriarch".

oh well in that case patriarchy clearly doesn't exist in modern society
women and children are not in any sense the property of their fathers, and there's no great emphasis on becoming a patriarch
maybe go tell the afghans about it

lol I wrote a paragraph on my phone on the toilet
patriarchy theory is about as scientific as complaining about zog, globalists, masons, illuminati, etc. There's no serious political philosophy done on the topic, it's pure ideology being used to attack the one group that it's advocates blame for literally everything else wrong with the world too

it's pure ideology being used to attack the one group

again, you have literally no idea what you're talking about yet are all to willing to make strong broad sweeping judgements. that is not what the patriarchy is.

do you actually read any feminism or are you just another useless idiot being used for their motte and bailey

feminine traits as less than

lol see, you know. it's because of that core idea that feminism always ends up as misandrist garbage even at its best. it thinks anything men suffer is a result of misogyny. the fact you don't see that as a problem is why i hate you people so much. narcissism.

oh well in that case patriarchy clearly doesn't exist in modern society

it partially exists but is withering away. even western societies retain a lot of vestigial norms that made sense as part of it but don't in isolation (for instance, a man asking a woman's father for his permission to marry her is still common where i grew up, even though no one involved thinks he actually needs that permission).
there's also a kind of fake feminism, tightly correlated with TE"RF"ism, that wants to keep the part where women get special protection because they're reproductive assets and keep absolute power over their children while not having any of the restrictions, not understanding the ways in which those things are all tied together.
i've often said that if you look at what TERFs actually want, it's not feminist liberation but to be a genderswapped version of the roman paterfamilias.

why are you so mad about people acknowledging that the root of the social problems men face is misogyny?

men can't express emotions, men are told to be stoic, isolated and self-reliant to their own detriment, men arent allowed to express themselves with sensitivity, men aren't allowed close friendships.
why?
because it's girly, faggy, weak, gay sissy shit.
what the fuck else do you call that if not misogyny?
do you think that by acknowledging that the root of these issues is misogyny we're taking the focus off of men? because no, that's not how that works, misogyny also affects men evidently.

why isn't it misandry when women are punished for not being conventionally feminine?

Because it's misogyny. Don't you get it? Misogyny is all that exists so whenever anything I don't like happens it's because people hate women (I am a woman btw)

it's not misandry because women being punished for being masculine is not born of a hatred of men, it's born of a hatred of women trying to embody men, because it's a position "above them" and they should stay in their place. the idea is women should be passive and pretty, any woman that tries to be strong is seen as gross, unnatural, annoying, tarnished.
it's not something that really stands out too much nowadays but pay a little more attention and you'll see it here and there.
the way people talk about women who are *actually* masculine, the way people talk about FtMs as though they're silly little girls trying to reach a position too far above them, the way people talk about women who get breast reductions, women who try to be funny, women who sleep around, women who tell crude jokes.
these are all things most people think it's fine for men to do but when a woman does it it's met with disgust and annoyance.

it's the same reason why men being punished for feminity isn't misandry, it's not a hatred of men, it's a hatred of men trying to embody women because thats a position that is beneath them.

nobody who calls men with long hair faggots because they hate women. Hating gay men is not downstream from hating women. Just like nobody who calls a woman a dyke for having short hair is doing so out of hatred for men
this is why it's so hard to take things like patriarchy seriously, because it comes from people who blame literally everything on men or misogyny.

the only post itt i understand

it's not misandry because women being punished for being masculine is not born of a hatred of men, it's born of a hatred of women trying to embody men, because it's a position "beneath them" and they should stay in their place. the idea is women should be passive and pretty, any woman that tries to be strong is seen as gross, unnatural, annoying, tarnished.

it's the same reason why men being punished for feminity isn't misandry, it's not a hatred of men, it's a hatred of men trying to embody women because thats a position that is above them.

because it comes from people who blame literally everything on men

why do you guys cling so hard to this idea of feminism just being a vessel to shit on men? why is there never any nuance or seemingly no attempt whatsoever to actually understand and engage?
I've probably said in this thread alone about half a dozen times, men are also hurt by the patriarchy, the patriarchy is propped up by EVERYONE, men do not necessarily benefit from the patriarchy.

why then is this idea of this being some covert "misandry" thread so fucking embedded in your head?

w-what if I gweentexted the post but den instead uv just weaving it I switched duh words awound so dat it was actuwully saying duh opposite!! hehe, that'll show doze friggin miss andrizstz! im so smart!

why do you guys cling so hard to this idea of feminism just being a vessel to shit on men?

maybe people have lived experience being shit on by feminists for being men...

sorry to hear that but are you really gonna let some dumbasses make you plug your ears and go "lalalalalalala" indefinitely?

no argument

Your misogyny narrative is self-imposed. At most, you've established that people of both sexes can be punished for going outside the norms of their gender, but the hierarchy that you impose can be inverted into its opposite just as easily. Misandry and Misogyny have the same standing if thy are derived from the existence of gender norms as such.

no? but it also means I'm not just going to assume that feminism is all just based on objectivity and benevolence, and not at all influenced by bigotry

Women are given preferential treatment and the only evidence given for the existence of the patriarchy is feminists collectively agreeing it does because they feel like they should be even more privileged than they already are.

Zog is real c'mon now.

People don't have an issue with masculine women. Women who say this thing are invariably blind to major pro-social aspects of masculinity, they think being a man means scratching your ass, burping, and belittling others. Basically the hysterical description feminists give of men. So when their asshole, cliche douchebag behavior gets them nowhere they start blaming "society" or "the patriarchy". But the truth is if a man behaved the way they did he would have lost a bunch of teeth by now.

pretty much why people got annoyed with “girl boss” characters. They were always toxically masculine, not actually masculine in a positive way.

Patriarchy
(noun)
lit. Rule of the father
from the greek patron meaning father and archon meaning ruler.

If you want to pretend it's not attacking men maybe pick a different word?

stuff you just made up

Yeah, go ahead and tell this to any butch woman whose family rejects her or who's told to get out of the women's restroom or experiences work discrimination.
IME it's the opposite: butch women reject all the feminine rituals and adopt masculine fashion, mannerisms, and maybe some performative masculine gender roles, but are more pro-social and respectful to others than cishet men tend to be.

Oh no, why didn't women stop it?

men are so dumb and simple. it must be bliss

who's told to get out of the women's restroom

isn't that just a consequence of radical feminist policing of women's spaces though?

I mean I get upset when women get unfair advantages, free money and better treatment. No one’s against women in power when they don’t cheat and scrabble over others.

the only evidence given for the existence of the patriarchy

I mean, here's a non-exhaustive list of issues off the top of my head. Women:

Tend to have lower paying jobs than men

Do more unpaid labor at the home than men

Are expected to do more beauty rituals than men

Are the main ones who tend to be raped and coerced into degrading sex acts in porn

Do not have their data collected to the same extent as men, making men the default subject in things like medical studies and crash test dummies

Are not proportionally represented in positions of power, like CEOs and politicians

Have their autonomy threatened (e.g. abortion, attacks on no-fault divorce) every time a very conservative government is elected in any given country

I'm sure we could have a debate about any one of these topics to the bump limit, but there is a wealth of feminist literature talking about these issues and more than that. For you to say that there's "NO EVIDENCE" (even evidence you disagree with) is just a sign that you totally have not engaged with any feminist point of views and are basically willfully saying things you know probably aren't correct because you're hoping to argue in bad faith with people here.

The masculine women with a chip on their shoulder are inevitably standoffish and obnoxious. They're not all bad, but in no way are they on average better than men.

it's probably tourists and others larping as MTFs, as an aside, i hate misandrists just as much as misogynists.
this is true.

Well, as someone whose come into contact with a fair amount of young butch women (because my cis lesbian sister has dated and befriended them and introduced them to me), I just haven't met those with chips on their shoulders. Maybe it's because my sister wouldn't befriend them if they did, or maybe because these butch women have community and the ones with chips on their shoulders don't. They tend to be genuinely nice people. And it's been like that for the few public butch figures I've seen, too. So I just don't agree with what you're saying.

whose

*who's

Do more unpaid labor at the home than men

Even if true this is up to singular relationship dynamics, and has nothing to do with some purported patriarchy. There's not some social enforcement of women doing housework.

Are expected to do more beauty rituals than men

This is socially enforced by women, not men.

Are the main ones who tend to be raped and coerced into degrading sex acts in porn

In what fucking world is The Patriarchy as defined by feminists pro-porn? Feminists were a huge reason for porn being normalized. Asinine.

Are not proportionally represented in positions of power, like CEOs and politicians

Why would it be proportional? This is just assuming women are as capable of doing these jobs as men. They're not.

Have their autonomy threatened (e.g. abortion, attacks on no-fault divorce) every time a very conservative government is elected in any given country

Is this a troll? How is removing no-fault divorce anti-woman?

The one true thing you said was

Tend to have lower paying jobs than men

Even if true this is up to singular relationship dynamics, and has nothing to do with some purported patriarchy. There's not some social enforcement of women doing housework.

You could say this about any systemic issue. It's just full of individuals.

This is socially enforced by women, not men.

And at work if a woman is to look professional.
And by the media when they report on female public figure's outfits in a way that wouldn't happen for a male one.
And by anyone who goes to traditional events like weddings.

In what fucking world is The Patriarchy as defined by feminists pro-porn? Feminists were a huge reason for porn being normalized.

It was mainly male pornographers in the 50s through the 80s, like Hugh Hefner, who was definitely not feminist, but yeah, later on, sex-positive feminists encouraged sex work, including pornography, which caused a lot of dissent between feminists.
There's an extract about him at this blog: antiporn-activist.tumblr.com/post/166118209631/the-amount-of-people-who-are-absolutely-convinced

Why would it be proportional? This is just assuming women are as capable of doing these jobs as men. They're not.

There's another thing - this patriarchal view that female biology makes one less competent and less capable of leadership.

How is removing no-fault divorce anti-woman?

Because it means women cannot easily leave abusive relationships (physically abusive or otherwise) without a walk through the legal system to prove it. No-fault divorce has decreased female suicide rates and rates of murder and domestic violence. A 2004 study that supports this: users.nber.org/~jwolfers/papers/bargaining_in_the_shadow_of_the_law.pdf
It was the National Association of Women Lawyers that fought for it in the first place.

The one true thing you said

More bad faith.

Also, there's more about no-fault divorce in the US here:

aclusd.org/en/news/attacks-no-fault-divorce-are-dangerous-especially-those-experiencing-domestic-violence

blackburncenter.org/post/why-no-fault-divorce-is-necessary

gee 'non you're spending quite a bit of energy on people who really are not willing to engage at all

Yeah, I do get sucked into it, maybe a bit too much, but I hate it worse when I see statements like theirs go unanswered, because I feel like it would delegitimize feminism to lurkers and make MRA views more prominent on this board, which I'm not a fan of.

Nobody here actually cares about the divorce thing. My biggest issue with feminism is the blatant double standards against amabs that causes all the transphobia and TERF nonsense.
Sort that out and I will agree to tearing down the patriarchy

Well, I agree with you there. I really, really don't like TERFs and irrational haters of AMABs, and I think trans supportive feminist people tend to agree, too.

That’s just not been my experience. Boys are treated with suspicion and judged guilty at birth mostly by the women who control their early life. This is misandry based on the insane grievance economy not misogyny