Say thank you to Donald Zarda

Say thank you to Donald Zarda.

He was fired after coming out at work - he was tandem jumping with a female customer (he was a skydive instructor), and he semi-jokingly told her, as they were strapped together, "don't worry about how close we are, I'm gay", and the woman told someone else who worked at the skydive company, and he was fired. I wonder who the woman who told on him is, and what her deal is, and how she feels about it now. Would be really interesting to see an interview with her, but that will never happen.
Anyways, he's dead now. He died in a skydiving accident. The Supreme Court case he was a part of, had two other plaintiffs, another gay man, Gerald Bostock, and a trans woman, Aimee Stephens, who also has since passed away since the case (which was pretty recent, 2020).

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it's completely inappropriate to joke about implied sexual imposition in a situation like that, regardless of your sexuality. same issue with afabs who think it's ok to grope gay or trans amabs they don't know, because of foid logic. and I say this as a person who doesn't mind that kind of thing at all when it's directed at me, it's just that I'm socially aware enough to know most people do not appreciate it at all

joking about being gay is the same thing as groping a woman

I think conservative morality broke ur brain my dude

Thank you Donald Zarda, I guess

YOU ARE FUCKING WELCOME

The lesson here is
1) YES there are idiots who genuinely believe coming out as gay at work through a slightly crude joke (but at a skydiving place not a church) merits you being fired
2) (more important) our awful country supreme court actually managed to disagree with you, despite most of them being appointed by conservatives tho I suspect their true reasoning, as with gay marriage, was more economic and about making money than morality - gay marriage and gay/trans people being part of the workforce is what big capital wants
whereas say gay cake - it doesn't really make money to force a business to make gay cakes, so that issue hasn't been truly solved by courts in the same way

never said that, and this is not a morality issue it's a social awareness issue, you don't fuck around with making someone sexually uncomfortable when you're in a situation where there's no way out other than dying, that's the entire basis of the "the implication" skit

if it was a church it would be much more acceptable, because, again, this isn't about what the sky daddy said in the old book, it's about being a normal fucking person who can momentarily try to imagine what the other person is feeling

it's completely inappropriate to joke about implied sexual imposition in a situation like that

True, but that didn't seem like what was even happening. He told a chick he was gay so she wouldn't feel like the random man who was strapped with his cock right behind her ass that he was gonna grope her or whatever. Metoo stuff is in the zeitgeist these days, so I understand the urge to try to avoid coming off like that, even if it was preemptive on his part and she wasn't actually thinking that to begin with. It didn't seem like he was making a joke that involved implying he was going to do anything to her. She just overreacted, as did his boss for firing him. I'm willing to believe that all of this was potentially a result of a misunderstanding on the chick's part and his boss going overboard trying to protect his business, but even then it was wrong to fire him. I also just doubt it, considering what he said was so tame, should the reported facts be believed. He and his partner look very normal, so I don't get the vibe they were woke and making shit up, though.

True, but that didn't seem like what was even happening. He told a chick he was gay so she wouldn't feel like the random man who was strapped with his cock right behind her ass that he was gonna grope her or whatever.

Everyone knows you're strapped to someone when you're skydiving. Bringing it up out of the blue like that IS coming off like that.

What does it say about me that I think he and his partner are hot af? Lmao I just love middle aged men so much. Wrinkles on men are a turn on to me lmao

you don't fuck around with making someone sexually uncomfortable

But his intention was obviously doing the exact opposite of this?? Like, sure, it might have not been successful, but he was explicitly telling this to her so she WOULDN'T feel sexually uncomfortable. It's her fault for overreacting to this because it's literally the most fucking mundane thing he could have said in that situation. She's just being sensitive if such a bland statement seriously set her off and made her uncomfortable. I don't mean to be all 'current year', but seriously this happened in 2020. Faggots have been plastered all over the tv screen for like 30 years now at least. If existing next to a homosexual still bothers you that much at this point, that's on you.

I agree the whole thing is getting blown out of proportion but there are some things that are much better left unsaid. let's leave sex and sexuality out of this because I think nobody can have a rational conversation about this stuff. imagine you're about to go under for surgery, and as the gas is kicking in, the doctor says "don't worry, if you go into cardiac arrest we're not going to just ice the body so we can harvest the organs because there's a shortage of kidneys these days and your profile says you're prone to heart issues"

up to that moment, you saw the dr as a professional with professional standard of ethics and such, you were not even thinking of that as a possibility but suddenly you are. can you see why the doctor should have just stfu and not said anything?

...huh? Anon, are you trying to do that trolling tactic where you pretend to stubbornly believe in something really stupid? Cause this makes no sense. If the issue here that made it 'uncomfortable' for her to the degree that him being fired or even reprimanded at all was even remotely reasonable was the act of merely acknowledging, even indirectly, that you got an instructor strapped to you when you go skydiving, then she and his former boss need to get the everliving fucking over themselves because literally nothing happened and nothing was ever gonna happen. Are we at the point where even acknowledging that women get uncomfortable with certain things and trying to make them more comfortable is misogynistic and rapey now? Lol like the fuck? This shit is dumb af.

I'll put it more bluntly:
If I walk up to a woman at my work and say "Hello, how are you?" she might say "Hello, I'm good, thanks!"
If I walk up to a woman at my work and say "Hello, don't worry I won't rape you!" she will be correctly freaked out.

thank you Donald Zarda

nta but again you're moralizing when the issue is simply about having enough social awareness. if the customer went in knowing she was getting strapped to a dude's crotch, it can be assumed she trusted his professional ethics enough that he was in it for skydiving and not copping a feel. as soon as he brings up the fact that his dick is all over her ass, regardless of intent, it's a stupid and totally inappropriate thing to say, and yes it does sound rapey because it broadcasts where his mind is, and his mind is not on the skydiving.

The most clear-cut case was Gerald Bostock, who joined a gay man's softball league and was fired shortly after, as well as the trans woman who was explicitly fired for wearing female clothing to work, I think the Zarda case is interesting since it shows how incidentally homosexuality can be brought up in various settings and people tend to over-react, tell others, and try to get them in trouble for mentioning they were gay and courts can't just ignore that without denying gays exist or saying they deserve to be second class citizens cuz they spread disease or something.

it would be fine to bring up being gay in a church

you cannot be serious

apparently a recording exists of him (zarda) getting fired:

youtu.be/APQs-0d9TkE

you are not acknowledging the specific circumstance of gayness and that people get hysterical over the mention of being gay because you aren't supposed to talk about that

man tells woman a joke

that is LITERALLY rape and he deserved to have his life ruined

Ok nah sis, you gotta be trolling. That's an overly extreme example and not at all comparable. A better example is the doctor saying "Don't worry, I have a lot of experience and know what I'm doing. I won't make any mistakes. They don't call me Steady-Hand Steve for nothing!." Both Don and the doctor indirectly acknowledged the person might have fear of something bad happening, but assured them there's nothing to worry about in a joking manner.

We as adults can't be so weak and fragile that merely indirectly referencing bad things is taboo. That's stupid as fuck. Anyone who would be offended by what he said needs to grow up and stop being so sensitive.

man does something inappropriate at job

man fired from job

It's not literal rape, but it's obvious what will happen. He can get another job.

not watching your video, just saying you keep sliding back and forth between what's moral and what's socially appropriate, yes there's some relationship between the two, no they are not the same question. morally, objectively, I can whip out my dick in church and jerk off while staring at jesus, and as long as nobody is there, and I am 100% certain nobody will ever find out, I'm morally in the clear. once I bring it up and involve other people in any way, then it's no longer so simple

It's inappropriate to say "don't worry, I'm gay" at your job?

I'm sorry you have no social awareness and I hope society becomes accepting enough of severely autistic social cripples that you can some day lead a normal and happy life, it's not your fault your parents had you at 45

you're not explaining at all why I should thank a dead faggot

What would she be worried about by him being straight?

ok so a couple things for context:
1. He was making small talk to try to calm the woman down before skydiving by making a joke - people are nervous before skydiving
2. apparently the woman's BOYFRIEND made the complaint to the skydiving company - tho the woman did tell her boyfriend

it just goes to show there's this weird chain of hysteria around gayness where if you are gay, and you do something wrong, one person tells another, and then it snowballs into you getting in trouble, and that's how a lot of homophobia works
it rarely even is you explicitly getting in trouble for saying you are gay (that's why this situation was rare enough to become a court case), its usually just gay person makes a mistake and telephone gets played and people figure out how to try to ruin the gay person's life because that's how herd behavior is and we are all animals

that isn't what he said though now, was it. since we're spamming youtube links:

youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c

I kind of hate this skit because there's kind of a "one of the good ones" vibe to it, but the general point is that you can be an asshole, and involve your gayness, and other people not being happy about that doesn't make it homophobic

he sued the skydiving agency and the resultant case turned into a ban on discrimination in employment over LGBT status by the Supreme Court

thank you, that was literally not in the OP or the thread

To be fair, I'm not sure what the exact words are, and does that really matter? Is the issue here him being overly sexual, or him being gay? If he wasn't gay, would people have cared as much?

that isn't a better example, because it doesn't raise any specific concerns that are outside what a reasonable person would expect. it's not about "something bad happening" it's about raising an oddly specific concern that taps into a particular sensitivity that any reasonable person would know is likely to cause a hair trigger overreaction. your example would just be "don't worry I'm an experienced skydiver" not "don't worry I'm totally not going to violate your trust and there's nothing you could do about it because btw I totally could but I won't haha isn't this funny?"

I used to work at SDLI. I can recall on numerous occasions of sex related comments being made to women or in the presence of women by other staff and nothing came of it. It seems Ray wanted to sweep Don under the rug and this gave him a good opportunity. I wonder if Ray really asked his attorney for advice in regards to the firing, as it doesn't really appear to be quite sound advice. He owes Don a reason for the firing, it's not working out just doesn't cut it. It's just a pathetic excuse from Ray. Good for Don for recording this and requesting Lauren to check the jump video, although she doesn't appear to be of any help.

you act as if a straight male would never mention anything sexual to a woman or that everytime they did, it was policed
the whole point is a gay man is being policed for mentioning sexuality in a way a straight man would not be
it's a double standard
all you have is pearl clutching about "women's discomfort" but the woman didn't even complain, it was her boyfriend who did apparently

contrary to what they teach in school, the law is subjective bullshit that can change back and forth depending on who wears the robe

Okay I get your argument better now about social awareness. I still just think it's absolutely not a big deal and she's still overreacting and needs to get over it lol. Istg I'm not some fucking woman hating incel or whatever, but I'm sick of chicks being so overly sensitive in situations like this, overreacting to it because they couldn't keep a lid on their own senses and getting other people riled up and also overreacting over literally nothing just because a female was made mildly and temporarily uncomfortable. I damn well know the vast majority of chicks will look at this, acknowledge the point you're making and still think it's not a big fucking deal and not worthy of being fired over. Humans aren't all hyper analytical psychopaths that meticulously analyze every little detail of what to say before they say it to prevent any slight misunderstanding. And that's not a bad thing. This wasn't an issue of lacking social awareness, this was just him acting normal for him and her getting her panties in a twist over nothing. Ironically, it's actually her that lacks social awareness because instead of being full of herself and being offended or 'made uncomfortable' over nothing, she could have easily been able to tell that his intentions were completely innocent, regardless of whatever farfetched ~implications~ could be read into his words if you squinted real hard and channeled the spirit of Andrea Dworkin.

I'm not ready all that. Women shouldn't be allowed to ruin men's lives because they're so terrified of rape they think being told a joke is equal to being forcibly penetrated.

anon, apparently her boyfriend was the one who complained to the skydiving place

Apparently tho I guess really her crime was TELLING her bf, I guess it did bother her, but the bf was the one to bother to call the skydiving agency and report what happened, and then the owner fired him, and maybe the owner had an axe to grind with this employee over other stuff and was just looking for a reason

see if you want to grandstand about morality and the double standards about gay/straight, fine. in fact if you wanna grandstand about the double standards between amab/afab, that's also fine. but for your sake I really really hope you can understand why joking about sexually assaulting someone when you're strapped to them at 10k feet and there's nowhere for them to go is, at best, hilariously clueless sitcom-tier autism and you should be mocked and hazed for it

I'm not ready all that. Women shouldn't be allowed to ruin men's lives because they're so terrified of rape they think being told a joke is equal to being forcibly penetrated.

It's not equal to being forcibly penetrated, because he was not charged with any crime. It was an uncomfortable joke he made at work, so he was fired from that job.

Okay I stand corrected, but everything still applies just the same to him. And honestly there's definitely a non-zero chance that even if it was the bf that made the complaint, he only did that because she overreacted and whinged to him to begin with. Tell me I'm wrong. It's definitely not uncommon for that occur with straight couples.

joking about sexually assaulting someone

But he literally didn't tho? lmao

This is joking about sexually assaulting someone:

Hey wanna play the rape game?

Umm, no?

That's the spirit!

This is not:

Don't worry, I'm gay

What would she have to worry about if he was straight?

Don't worry, I'm gay

don't worry about what though? why should she be worried in the first place? this is like a certain president going "what kind of women do I like? *points at daughter* yeah she's hot! perhaps, if she wasn't my daughter..."

and you're be like "but he said she's off limits because she's his daughter! just because he's a man doesn't mean..." while everyone else is throwing up

ok i'm bored now, was nice going back and forth, anon, peace
about me tonguing your anus

anon has no response like usual

because she's about to jump out of a plane and risk her life and people get nervous and its an attempt to bond with her and share an element of his own humanity but instead you CANNOT SEE GAY MEN as anything other than predators due to brainwashing and this is literally why the court decision was rendered why it was lol

also the lawsuit was filed 2010 wasn't resolved until 2020 so if u get fired from ur job for being gay u have to wait 10 years for them to resolve it

america

land of the free

except if you say you are gay or wear a dress to work

then u get fired

if you complain it will take so long to fix u will DIE before that happens

ALSO
I bet the owner had other beef with Zarda and it was never really even about the actual comment he made.

Why would she be worried in the first place about him being straight?

why would you even mention anything sexual in that context? these people rely on sitcoms too much to inform their views on social norms. i'm glad he was fired. being 30+ and this socially retarded warranted a wake up call.

you can't mention you being gay casually THATS SEXUAL IM TELLING

why does this keep happening?

an attempt to bond with her and share an element of his own humanity

let me reiterate for the 10th time, yes this was blown out of proportion, but there are some things you just don't share, at least not in that context. ever heard of a dad joke? obviously this guy hasn't. you may not realize this if your social scene is fire island and p-town but actually, humor that doesn't involve sex does exist!

I feel like this happened in long island, it wasn't somewhere conservative, I wonder what the boyfriend who complained has got going on

you're the only one who doesn't understand how weird saying that is. skill issue, don't be a skydiving instructor i guess...

let me guess, you think gays are hypersexual?

the only reason you see this as a liberal/conservative thing is because he used the word "gay", he could have said he was married or he lost his dick in a skydiving accident and it would have still been the wrong thing to say

btw long island isn't that liberal, especially out in suffolk county, you'll find a few isolated blue spots like the hamptons but otherwise it's about as liberal as upstate new york

you literally said this shit is ok in fire island this is like 50 mi away

lesson is: dont go out of your way to make women feel more comfortable

no the lesson is mentioning you are gay creates a hysteria that travels across multiple people to snowball and get you in trouble in a way mentioning being straight does not

it wasn't that he was guy he brought attention to how uncomfortable she might be in that position and tried to make it better but just made it weird by bringing it up in the first place.

i dont think it was that uncomfortable i think he was just trying to share something about himself to be vulnerable and she took advantage of him doing that
the "if you make women uncomfortable its ok to ruin you" part of society is awful

thats a random thing to just share with someone out of the blue while their ass is up against your dick.

random = ok 4 u to be fired
anon the point is coming out as gay is seen as transgressive and overly sexual

that's an extremely inappropriate comment and whoever fired him must have fucked up by not making it clear he was being fired for being creepy with customers rather than being gay

sigh there's literally a video I linked where the owner tries to make EXACTLY THAT ARGUMENT
I don't know for sure what wording Zarda used with the customer, but I don't get the faux moral outrage over a skydiving comment. You'd think people willing to risk jumping out of an airplane would be ok with someone telling you they are gay without freaking out...

today anon found out different areas can have drastically different cultures even if living close together, wait until you find out about neighborhoods in NYC

Which neighborhood in NYC is least safe for gays?