Ignoring the obvious conservative backlash, why did the trans rights movement fail?

Ignoring the obvious conservative backlash, why did the trans rights movement fail?

No leadership

No unifying message

stand out. imo these structures never cropped up because nobody was ever able to get on the same page about trans kids. Even the slogan

Leave the trans kids alone

and

Protect trans kids

was basically the community letting out an exasperated sigh and saying fuck it no I will not elaborate. It was like countering conservative backlash with more conservatism (as in reactionary- ie "don't do that" "protect these")

You're right, there's been no consistent message about trans people. I think the narrative was way easier for cis people to understand (and *more true*) when it was just "trans people are trapped in the body of the wrong gender" rather than "being trans is literally just an identity". gender isn't just an identity, and claiming that it is makes it seem like we're only transitioning because we think it'd be fun or something. obviously the right-wing media-industrial complex also played apart in setting back trans rights, but I certainly don't think the current messaging is helping us either.

any ideology, religion, culture, or train of thought where people with holes have contributed any more than a miniscule amount is bound to fail. it just is what it is.

nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pandemic-altered-personalities-more-neurotic-less-agreeable-rcna49595

this is probably a big part
everyone hates the left for the pandemic response

Didn't read the article I linked award

I know it measurably made people trust “Studies say” headlines and the scientific community much less.

I think what I said is a generalization of what the researchers said

how do you turn the part of your brain off that makes you freaked out by trans kids?

If you're seeing them on social media when they're as young as the one in OP's vid, they're probably not even trans and it might be an actual case of the parent being a clout chaser.
If they're a teen it's kinda different they're probably posting themselves.

Bargain bin Liev and Kai Schreiber

Covid, trans rights movement, etc/ were all a psy-op to be used to get trump into power to create the secodn holocaust

secodn holocaust

But the firts holocaust was so bad!

why do groomer parents conflict "being a girl" with drag? this kid didn't come up with these mannerisms on his own

I agree but unironically those are somewhat natty like the fagcent. Zucker linked gay kids to limp wrists and he was right

she looks happy

what a lucky girl

The issue is that majority of trannies and trans allies are retarded. If an actual activist tries to convice politicians that estrogen is a needed medicament to fight gender dysphoria, more than half the trannies would call them transphobic or trans medicalist because 0.02 of trannies dont have gender dysphoria.

How the fuck you achieve any political goal when any step forward isnt good enough and must be destroyed? Not only that but these same people will platform other retards.

We live in a retarded world in which retards get to speak and people who live in reality must follow.

There was no gatekeeping or boundaries. For years trans people could go to bathrooms with the understanding that the goal is to pass. Now you have literal men in dresses being protected as "beautiful, valid women". We needed to gatekeep harder

This is a problem as well. Why does "trans kid" always mean drag? If your girl wouldn't be seen in heels or makeup, why should your boy?

If an actual activist tries to convice politicians that estrogen is a needed medicament to fight gender dysphoria, more than half the trannies would call them transphobic or trans medicalist because 0.02 of trannies dont have gender dysphoria.

Yup. The "you don't have to transition to be trans" crowd fucking messed up everything.

You ever seen child pageants?

Those are disgusting too and no one likes them outside the crowd who puts their kids in them. The public sent9iment about child pageants or "Netflix Cuties" is the same level as child drag.

because we're a tiny minority of the population and we were always dependent on the goodwill of the powerful
quit trying to make it about being trans in the right way

Except no one gave a shit about bathrooms or trans kids until ugly trenders tried to pretend they were the same and got clumped under that umbrella via intersectionality. Don't pretend tolerance isn't a 2 way street.

no one gave a shit about bathrooms or trans kids until 4th wave feminism collapsed and only TERFs and trans men remained

male feminists moved to the right chasing TERF pussy, because he/him pussy is out of reach (something about improved critical thinking skills on T makes trans men much better at spotting posers)
same reason we've got the onions right now

What time machine did you use to come back here from that future you described, because that sounds great

TERFs were always whining about this shit, it's just that previously they were the minority feminist voice, now they're the only feminist voice and left wing politicians are still listening to their retarded asses thinking it appeals to all women when they're one of the smallest demographics
the right wing was also always whining about this shit

what changed was that transitions being successful has caused a predator population collapse

I went to college 12 years ago and I'm back at college right now, the vibe has shifted in feminism because the male leadership left to be men

my state has some of the most based fag rights laws in the nation, so i don't notice anything.

why did the trans rights movement fail?

a calculated, well organized and well-funded opposition to it that was willing to work in a coalition made up of rightoids, some dimwitted leftoids and radfems

Wow thats great. I graduated in 2012 and shit was getting weird

I still know a lot of the would-be trans men from my first attempt at college (studying compsci), enby repping has not worked for them as millennials
the trans men I know now (studying psych) are flourishing as people and flailing romantically (valid male experience lel)

the feminist professors are mad as fuck they missed the boat to transition, old TERFs are nothing but balls of bitter envy

also went to uni back in 2014-2015 and now recently returned to upskill but can also vouch for their being a massive vibe shift in feminism compared to then, I'm not sure why though.

I just said why damnit
find me an alternate theory to debate or debunk mine but dont brush mine off when you don't have any other explanation

as far as I can tell I'm speaking truth as I have observed it

it changes back whenever abortion rights are threatened
trans men become militant feminists overnight again until the issue gets resolved again
I'm betting colleges in red states have a lot more of a early 10s college vibe to their feminists because of it

The idea of childhood transitioning was retarded.
Also I think in some ways rather than there being too little structure there was too much structure.
In the 1990s transsexuals were largely accepted. They were sometimes made fun of, like with Ace Ventura. But also Ace Ventura had its transsexual character played by a hot real woman. You had trannies made fun of a bit on daytime talk shows like Jerry Springer. But also they were humanized and the audience generally showed support for romance involving trannies when both parties seemed genuinely in love.
And aside those somewhat negative examples, you had lots of much more positive exposure, like The Crying Game which cast a natal male as its tranny character, where people generally accepted he was both visibly transsexual and yet also believably attractive and capable of realistically leading the heterosexual protagonist into falling in love with him. Or documentaties that showed transsexuals going through the process of trying to live as the opposite sex.
What you didn't have much then was a lot of general public exposure to jargon like pronouns, gender, deadnaming, etc. That stuff might be fun for the subculture itself, but regular people get annoyed by it when it shows up in the office or at school.
And then specific lolcows like Dylan Mulvaney really made it easy for Republicans to come up with their successful scheme to use tranny bashing as a way to get more votes by appealing to both older conservatives and young edgy teens and twenty somethings.
The 90s way of keeping it simple worked best. Transsexuals just want to live as the opposite sex and are adults. Difficult to find much fault with that message.

But also they were humanized

You hit the nail on the head. The pedestalization of the whole thing made people hyperaware of something that didn't need awareness. Most trans wanted to be left alone prior to 2010s

early transitioners don't post on this board, clearly they're doing better mentally

why did the trans rights movement fail?

Easy.

Too much
Too fast

They actually do. You see their posts every so often where they admit they're underage and then get banned after receiving advice on how to diy.

the trans people of the past are not representative of the trans people of today because only the most cracked or demented would transition with so few options for a successful transition, they are the strongest of us, but also the most burdened
today weaker trans people can transition, and that's a triumph

we've gotta keep going til the weakest of all - current reppers and TERFs, feel safe in their own skin to transition

underage DIY seekers aren't what I meant by early transitioners

we've gotta keep going

No thanks. This attempt is failing hard. Follow this advice next time

fail

It didn't?

why backlash then

Cause the american people saw that the gov can take care of them in 2020 and they need an escaped goat to distract the masses from removing all of those breaks they gave their cattles

yes, because undoing progress will surely help us progress
are you retarded

nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pandemic-altered-personalities-more-neurotic-less-agreeable-rcna49595

Researchers aren't sure whether adults will revert to their old personalities as the pandemic's social and economic impacts fade.

Kek 3 years later from this article and none of my pre-pandemic personality has been restored. But at least I did achieve my pre-pandemic goals somehow.

It's already undone. People being forced to accept and pretending will lead to a massive kickback as it already has. It'll be like the 90s again soon

everyone hates the left for the pandemic response

I maintain that the 2020 election was stolen, by Trump, for Biden, because Trump needed a fall guy for the obvious looming economic disaster that was going to unfold.

Seriously all the shit cuckservatives complained about like stimmies and lockdowns, even the jab, happened under Trump only for Biden to absorb the blame.

not brushing yours off it's just I haven't bothered to actually to go ask around or read. too bogged down with work + uni

if normies realized that humans are biologically hiredwired to see masculinity as scary & threatening society would literally break
but the trans movement & gender dysphoria itself is rooted in this fact

ohhh yeah
yeah I would be a lot more bogged down with uni work if I wasnt failing
what psych lacks in legitimacy for totally reasonable and valid reasons they make up for with academic overcompensation that doesn't actually teach or demonstrate comprehension of the material any better

this field deserves the plague of chatGPT it's going to get, and even if no one deserves the psychologists that graduate because of it to treat them odds are the psychologists they would've gotten before were just as bad (everyone in my field sucks, including me)

It was weird how he was the one behind the unorthodox approach to rush development on vaccines yet he was also the favored candidate for all the right wing people who hated the rushed vaccines.
Although I guess to play devil's advocate he wasn't the one who forced vaccines on people. It wasn't until the Biden Administration where they made that OSHA rule that required basically every working American to get vaccinated (or else get tested for covid every week or something ridiculous like that). It got struck down by the Supreme Court pretty quickly, but some people lost their jobs over it during that month or so before it was struck down.
And while it became a right wing position to oppose forced vaccination, honestly any reasonable person regardless of politics should have been concerned about taking a rushed vaccine. That was supposed to be a lesson everyone learned back in the 1970s when the rushed vaccine for that version of swine flu started causing Guillain-Barre syndrome, but somehow it became fashionable to pretend that never happened and that you're a schizo unless you inject rushed vaccines.

Nah you don't suck, I've met one person in psych who is cool, and it was a trans man who also didn't have much love for the field.
btw Is campus culture even alive over there? over here it is dead af compared to when I last went and apparently has been since COVID ended.

It's not playing devils advocate to tell the truth

the kids do not drink
they do not party
they're averse to drugs

I play boardgames on campus sometimes and that's as wild as it gets for them
it's so fucking weird

Kids are fucked, outside of ppl in the queer (can we got back to lgbt pls) society everyone is painfully boring.

no you don't understand those ARE the queers at my uni
the cool queers aren't at uni, they're working office jobs or unemployed

the only people on campus who party are the nursing students and good god I do not want to be drunk around them I do not need to pull up being gay as a defence against fake rape allegations from a BPDemon again

Playing devil's advocate usually involves telling the truth.
The whole point is making an argument for people you generally don't agree with but can come up with a rationale for arguing in favor of something said people are into. Lying would defeat the purpose of playing devil's advocate. The purpose is to come up with a valid argument for someone you typically don't agree with.

there wasn't a conservative backlash against trans stuff, conservatives just needed a new minority to scaremonger about since immigrants and gays before them wasn't working as good anymore.
Murdoch press just pivotted against us and because the average person is an idiot poublic sentiment is really easily to influence

alphabet mafia

no partying

no drugs

where the fuck did it all go wrong.

If they're telling the truth, why not agree with them?

I'll preface this post by saying that I like trannies.
The definitive reason, as in what actually happened from someone who witnessed it unbiased and who isn't just coping like these trannies, is that trannies alienated average people.
The important thing to understand about wing politics and the overton window is that a majority of the population is apathetic, indolent and self-interested. This is the base that each wing is trying to shift in order to gain traction.
A lot of you didn't exist before the year 2000 so you won't know it but for many many years these people who just wanted to be left alone leaned left and it was because the right were the people who were coming for them. The right wanted to abolish free speech, oppress people and just generally make things worse. Racism, sexism, homophobia, all of these things were fringe. A big, big part of this was that minority groups were largely amicable. Yeah there were black criminals but people accepted the demographic reasons. Yeah gays were a bit freakish but they minded their own business.
Identity politics were the left's answer to conservative moral panic and the death knell of the left. The injection of them into rhetoric and the promotion of them began with occupy wall street as a way to break down a dangerous movement.
How all this relates to trannies is simple; trannies were tricked into thinking that they had a power base, could tell people what to think or do, and could make bold statements about coming for people's kids or forcing their way into bathrooms. This created the perfect target for the right to use as a motivator for the people who just want to be left alone. Trannies willingness to make themselves look bad far exceeds other groups and they don't have enough of a collective voice to undo it. Now they're deadweight and they're being dropped by the left.

TL;DR

Trans rights failed because instead of trying to convince people it tried to force people and now nobody likes them.

shaddup

I remember in 2014 I called myself a feminist but it was kinda just cos tumblr had told me

feminism is just about equality that’s literally it!!!!

and I believed them without looking any further into the discourse

you're posting Kyriakos Grizzly you have no idea what an average person thinks, you are alienated from them

everyone you know is a weird outlier, it's just so common in your life that you think of it as normal
this is how confirmation bias works

cry about it more and ill consider it

This is a cope from someone who wants to tell themselves pretty stories about why things are the way they are rather than accept reality.

Take a look at the gay rights movement for comparison. It took some decades but the message got refined into "what we do in the privacy of our own house is none of your business", I think something like that is a real master strike against conservatives.

Now you look at tranners. Muh pronouns freaks who look like linebackers in a dress saying they want to come after your children and that they suffer from periods and somehow they are females even biologically

It also didnt help that the general aura of the obama years around his second term turned into liberals thinking they were the new moral police who could control what you can say and do

you are posting on Anon Babble /tttt/
you are a self admitted tranny chaser
you aren't normal
you don't have insight into how normal people think
this is not rocket science
would YOU believe someone posting on this board was an expert on normal people?

media propaganda
there was no fault on our side. christcucks/rightoids are culpable of way worse things and insanity, but media don't spend a quarter of the effort on covering it. media are controlled by them, after all.

She already looks like a male grim :(

can’t tell if satire

Take a look at the gay rights movement for comparison. It took some decades but the message got refined into "what we do in the privacy of our own house is none of your business", I think something like that is a real master strike against conservatives.

no dishonest shithead, the message is "what we do is none of your business". fags didn't fight to be able only to secretly have pozzed sex without going to prison.

that's TRUKE

The issue with trannies is that they basically are required to impose upon other's. Gays can just be gays in private, trannies can't.
The problem isn't that trannies are public it's how they handled their push for integration into society. Again, you can't convince everyone to accept you BUT you also can't force anyone to accept you.

"what we do is none of your business"

Literally nobody ever has won on a platform like this because it's retarded. Actual pedo argument.
I'm not a chaser.
Very revealing about you that you think that posting on Anon Babble is some fringe thing and also that you assume I have to be some kind of normie to touch grass and interact with normal people on a daily basis.
But again, keep coping and telling yourself pretty stories. It's really worked so far.

The message was

we r just like u!!! Fr!! Look at our khaki pants and button down shirt!

In the 2000s, at least

Correct

posting on Anon Babble is some fringe thing
only a delusional retard would think otherwise
oh, look, what a coincidence

Eh don’t feel too bad about it, if you time traveled and told me back then that intersectionality would die off, feminism would become puritanical and that terfs would become the face of feminism in a decade I would of thought your on drugs especially after mitchfest had closed for good.

You're too out of touch with reality to be helped, I'm sorry.

Literally nobody ever has won on a platform like this because it's retarded. Actual pedo argument.

actual retard
what's retarded is claiming that somehow the sight of kissing gays in public is bad and that you aren't homophobic for expecting fags to hide themselves. because... muh christcuck feelings are hurt?

Trans activism is all about eroding categories and structures and boundaries. An obvious side effect is that if all you do day in and day out is erode shit, your own side will seek to erode any structure you might actually want or even need (e.g. truscum vs tucute). And if all you do is vaporize boundaries, you'll leap over all the actually harmful red lines without a second thought, incentivizing dying on top of every 1inch hill in sight.

At no point in this conversation have I given my thoughts or feelings about homosexuals or two gay niggas kissing.
You're either very autistic or very immature to not understand the very basic distinction between what I said and what you've said.

no, you're cowardly deflecting after i exposed you as a dishonest homophobic christcuck pretending to be a "reasonable" person in the conversation when your position is in fact regressive.
there are real moral flaws, like actual institutionally protected pedophilic crimes for example, about which the right wing doesn't care, yet has the audacity to cry about nebulously defined "grooming" of trannies. the reason why there's so much hate against us and not them is media propaganda.

Gaynon? Tbh I think if you had the LGB get involved more in tranny activism instead of letting hardline trannies do whatever they wanted without thinking strategically it would have forced and moderated out the crazies within the movement for acceptance plus we probably would not be seeing the current backlash.
We would still have the problem of liberals being the most annoying cunts on earth and wanting to be a western version of the morality police, so who knows.

To quote Nietzsche, "If you crush a cockroach, you're a hero. If you crush a beautiful butterfly, you're a villain. Morals have aesthetic criteria". Most of the trans activists were the disgusting hons and not hot passoids.

it's not the activists fault, it's that negativity sticks in peoples minds more than positivity

you don't remember a passoid, you do remember a hon

You did none of those things because I never said anything of the like. Feel free to put to where I did though since you're totally not just being a dishonest copeoid.

Gaynon

No.
Nobody should have done anything. Tranny acceptance was at a high before identity politics.
The thing about tranny acceptance as well is that it flows naturally from trannies as a group improving. Perceptions of trannies was at an all time high because there were a lot of hot trannies. It's shallow but it's true. The correct thing all along was to do absolutely nothing, to not fall for the bait.
The backlash against trannies is 90% just that, backlash. It's reactionary. By trying to force issues that never should've been forced and not compromising we are now here.

i want to share my perspective, one that many people like me (25 year old cis man) probably share.

be me 14, clueless and enjoy ragebait cringe comps

be 15. bff turns trans. i know you are here, somewhere, old friend ;)

be 16. educate myself to try and understand what my friend went through and why they stopped talking to me. also had a ftm hit on me and didnt quite get it.

be 17. libtard, love is love, accept my bisexuality, have compassion (oh born with female brain etc)

be 19. explained to parents about trans after they encountered it in the news using THE SCIENCE!

be 20. college has shown me that trannies may be insufferable. but i respect it, dont judge the murder for one bad crow

be 20. slept with a tranny who came onto me. was weirded out when she kept trying to convince me i was trans. bugged out.

still 20. the heavy social aspect started grating on me. the endless media spectacle. the constant self pity. im basically gay now, and i dont make it anyones problem. it began to get old

be 22, working. respect trans, tired of the bullshit, the talking heads and influencers dragging our community down. scandals and grooming my lesbian friend showed me on kiwifarms. i began to decouple ideologically.

be me today, totally ambivalent to the trans cause, because i can no longer believe in good faith that 100% of you would be trans without social media and i cannot believe even 50% of you would meet the scientific criteria of being physically transgender (intersex condition such as feminine brain patterns or hormonal patterns etc)

able to seamlessly identify real vs fake trannies here in PNWville based on this. never fails. i can see it in their eyes.

i still love my trans friend wherever she is these days but man, nobody sunk the pity ship faster than you people. social burnout. poor strategic planning in the activist levels of the movement. totally coopted by the dem establishment for the culture war. comes off as performative now.

To make him pantomime being a girl because the nigga already has a gigabrowcranium and will grow to 6'2" due to poor testosterone bonecrunch

Doesn't mean we shouldn't discriminate against hons.

kiwifarms

tfw a nigger lets a cp child harasser website dictate his morals

over

able to seamlessly identify real vs fake trannies here in PNWville based on this. never fails. i can see it in their eyes.

care to describe what makes you think this?

Nta but I do agree with him that a ton of trans people feel fake af

yes it does
trust a bugman to have no humanity

well, sure. for context, im a masc top, and i had to figure out how to spot what i call a "real" bottom. i was a whore in college and learned that theres two types of bottoms

abused into it/fetished psyopped into

born a bottom, with an ethereal light in the eyes

its like how tolkien describes the light of the trees in the eyes if the eldar, you can SEE it. you can almost taste it, a dream to be with a man and love him and be loved. i never experienced love from a type one, but the type two? you can see it. in the eyes, in the face, the timbre of the voice (wether 'masc' or fem although id qualify an additional boundary between truegay and fetishgay which you can literally hear and even see in their body language).

for context, women in friends with always guess im gay using this technique too, although men think im a straight masc guy, no man ever knows unless i tell them.

same with trannies. i can "see" it in their eyes. there is a soft light or some tell in the shape of the eyelash or the quirk of the brow. i can see it, i can hear it in how they speak and form words and the way they walk. the same way i can pick a true goldstar lesbian of the old school, its in the eyes, in the voice, the things you cannot fake. and it informs me, immediately, of personalitt and how they will react - like a woman, or like a man. i am a new nietszche and such is my gay science. take it or leave it...

I'm the one who wrote but not the ones you are replying to.
I'll explain what I meant so you understand.

Conservatives, as their name would suggest, like to "Conserve" the status quo, which is why they are the polar opposites of Progressives, who seek to always push forward with the ideal of the day.

The way to work with someone who wants things to remain the same is NOT with huge dramatic changes that uproot everything they know and hold dear.
You don't fly from A to Z.
You do it by going from A, to B, to C.
Maybe even having to stop at C and a half before getting to D.

Imagine working with a mentally ill child who doesn't handle change well.
You don't upend their life and kick them out of the house for not "towing the line".
You take your time, praising them for things they do right. Letting them know what they could have done better, and so on.

because the "trans movement" has been taken over by people who were trying to use trans issues to push their cultural battle against gender norms and by straight cis people who just want to feel special and outnumber actual trans people.

Imagine if 2 decades ago during the battle for recognizing gay rights the movement was led by people who wanted to abolish marriage because they think marriage is a scam, and who claimed that nobody is gay or straight and sexual orientation is a social construct and that one doesn't need to be attracted to the same sex to identify as gay because everyone is valid.

There was plenty of medical evidence to support the trans kids thing, they went out of their way to undermine it. And the vast majority of trans people are on the same page about it.

The no leadership/no unifying message thing hits closer but we're not one homogenous group and neither is any demographic, gays weren't, you had the old Morrissey-type homosexuals who thought it was only good and proper not to mention it in public and then the LGBT rights movement who wanted the love that dare not speak its name to speak its name.

Imo, the problems of the trans rights movement are the same issue as what's screwed the left more broadly especially in the UK where I am over the past few decades- lack of systems awareness, strategic thinking, and resilience to discomfort in getting things done. Even before the transphobia blew up, there's still never been a centralised forum on the internet where trans people could discuss surgeons & have a systemised list of reviews and ratings on different points e.g. similar format to Realself. That's something some coded trannies could have knocked together easily. I still meet trans people who don't know about DIY in 2025. How? We're still not passing down key knowledge thru our community in an organised, systematic way. The trans teens at new London protest group Trans Kids Deserve Better did an interview with the Guardian about "things are so bad, we're having to turn to DIY which is far less than ideal, we need to raise awareness of this" etc. actually talking about DIY by name because no older activists ever warned them about opsec because we don't do anything in a rigorous manner.

Cont.

Number of people I've had flake on me carrying bags and things to protests because their little arms got sore after 5 mins so I have to hurt myself lugging too much shit around all day myself is in the double digits. As a community we didn't find out the FFS surgeon Inglefield was under a malpractice investigation until 2 years after it began despite the information being publicly listed online. Number of consultations etc. and other opportunities missed or only partially capitalised on. £10,000s in donations poured into hapless lib NGOs, hopeless legal cases, and frigging GenderGP, instead of the DIY scene where it could make the most material difference. Still no organised effort to get DIY info to trans teens. Everyone's too "eepy" and neurodivergent to try and get things done or done properly or swiftly enough. Compare to how the right take every opportunity and avenue and take it to its utmost extent whereever possible and how linked-up all the groups and individuals are ok their side, how sharp they are on the organising front. Other than them having a material head start by having billionaires and material resources on their side that's our biggest weakness, manoeuvrability.

the vast majority of trans people are on the same page about it.

the vast majority of trans people aren't actually trans because they're using the word trans to mean someone who goes against traditional gender norms, even if it's just putting they/them in their bio on tiktok.
the thing is the trans issue is being used by an insane part of the left that believes that humans are blank slates and any individual differences in behavior or personality is due to culture or education. Ironically the right also believes in this, as they think someone can be made trans or gay.

On top of that in the last couple of decades economic elites have been hoarding more and more wealth making everyone else poorer and have been directing the anger of those people towards minority groups who have nothing to do with it, like trans people.

Basically trannies are at the center of a cultural battle between insane radical leftists and insane rightoids.

letting conservative thought dictate how much progressivism is allowed is a surefire way to have it be "zero"

so no

changing the minds of current conservatives is never the goal
creating a new baseline in the next generation always is

as far as I can tell it's working, it's just not going to really come into swing for another 20 years, same way gays only really got accepted by in the 10s after decades of work when gen X started becoming parents

No drama.
I was only saying it as someone who is neither progressive nor conservative so am able to see what makes each side tick from outside the box.
You'll fail though. But that's ok.

And anyway, just to reiterate, as you never actually read my post (otherwise you would have understood)...
You aren't letting Conservatives "dictate how progressive" you can be, because that WOULD be zero.
I said that YOU PUSH a little at a time, let them cry, let them get used to it, and then push a little more.

hasn't ever been how it worked, all gay activism started going for gold and worked by little steps because the conservatives kept pushing back against the most forward push, allowing the backline to creep up
if you concede the "worst bits" then they find a new worst bit for you to concede, endlessly

The injection of them into rhetoric and the promotion of them began with occupy wall street as a way to break down a dangerous movement.

Most of your post is good but this is horseshit, nothing more than romanticizing from the OWS cohort that you either belong to or got hornswoggled by. OWS was a completely aimless "movement" with no objectives, leaders or structure, and thus completely harmless, just a bunch of losers sitting in tents. Nothing needed to be done to thwart them and nothing was, the whole thing just petered out on its own. All this is not to mention that it happened in one state in the US and the trans movement's failings are far wider encompassing at minimum the entire anglosphere (you could argue that the movement's goals getting comprehensively BTFO in the Nordics counts, for example). The idea that OWS was some sort of original nucleus of #theresistance that formed like a Demon Core-tier hazard to capitalism is an absurdity.

Also if all you do day in and day out is erode shit, normies will correctly identify you as destructive.

The trans movement was unironically too regressive, individualist, white and sexist. It started to conflict with more important progressive causes like anti-racism, open borders, and feminism. This naturally alienated tons of potential allies like liberal brown people, liberal women, socialists. Maybe in a few decades we can get a multicultural antiracist trans movement that is focused on economic equity instead of giving gibs to hons that might fare better.

every theory in this thread is more retarded than the last

why did the trans rights movement fail?

because visibility is antithetic to transition
homosexuals need to be seen as normal and accepted into society
"trans rights" are a cope for hons

Yeah yeah I already know my theory ism't going to be well received on the misogynist white tranny board. If you actually examine how the backlash spread to progressive cricles instead of vainly appealing to right wingers that don't support you by default, this is what happened.

OWS was a threat precisely for that reason. Those things you listed are meaningless, and in fact are a detriment. Having establishment approved "objectives, leaders and structure" isn't the way to challenge the status quo.
A bunch of disgruntled people in the right place reflecting a growing discontent is a far bigger threat than a government op controlled movement.
There's a reason that none of these movements have achieved anything in the past 60 years.
The reason that OWS was a threat is the same reason that BLM was allowed, sanctioned even, to burn down cities and that reason is geographical.
Lol this post epitomizes exactly what I said and why I am right. Trannies failed because of stupid retard hon identity politics and this idea that they could cling to other retards and wouldn't be dumped the second they became inconvenient.

identity politics

brown people, women are just retards iit should all be about ME

meaningless rhetoric that perfectly encapsulates the selfish and toxic troon mindset. I can't even blame the left for throwing this cause under the bus, thanks to people like you we earned it.

n-n-n-no our aimlessness and lack of coordination was a strength ackchually!!!

lmao it actually is a full blown OWS romantic
OWS was unironically just Millennial Woodstock

I'm not a tranny.
I can't imagine the lack of self-awareness it would take to make an obnoxious post that is full of entirely made up shit and projection and then to think that it is actually OTHER people who are making trannies look bad and not mentally ill, loud retards like yourself.
Yes. The flower power movement is also one of the few threatening movements, so much so that it created the foundation for controlled opposition, so it is fitting that you compared them.
I'm also not an American nor was I an adult at the time OWS was happening so get over yourself.

I am mentally stable and gainfully employed. I have a better vantage point on what liberals and normal people care about than the right wing neets on this board.

I'm not right wing.

it's all about ME

can't keep talking in circles like this

Truthnuke, but Anon Babble will never listen to it

So why bring up unrelated people? So you're smarter than a snail, that's not a very compelling argument.

unrelated

Very related because they are the people trannies need to build alliances with. Most people who are progressively inclined in the world are either female or brown in some way and the identity politics is the right wing attacking these people on the basis of their identities, so selfish people like you can continue to feel like they are irrelevant. Their demands aren't always salient either, but some of them are completely necessary and essential. Better working conditions for women and legal protections for immigrants should be a top priority for us because they give those people more leverage and breathing room to be politically active as well as building loyalty and trust among all of us who get exploited by the state and corporations.

how backlash spread to progressive circles was 4th wave feminism collapsed and only the most retarded insular radfems remained, then when the progressives asked "what does feminism want" TERFs answered
it really just boils down to how half the progressive leadership are braindead fossils with no critical thinking skills

The flower power movement is also one of the few threatening movements

oh my God you are actually even stupider than I thought

No what I was talking about

I have a better vantage point on what liberals and normal people care about than the right wing neets on this board.

These unrelated people. Try to keep up dumb dumb.
It undermined a war, led to military action by the government against American citizens and caused a significant political and cultural shift.
I think as is often the case that it's not that I am stupider than you thought, you're just dumber than you realize.

All you seem to care about is being smart and calling others dumb. If anything is unrelated here it's your insecurity around intellect.

This.

I'm as trutrans HSTS, Homosexual Transexual as they come but like I dont remember what I thought when I was 5 years old other than the fact I liked cream cheese.

Zucker: gay kids must be masculine and pretend to be straight men!!!
Trannies: gay kids must be totally submissive, exaggerate any hint of femininity, and be castrated to fit in!

Nobody: maybe we should let gay kids be themselves even if they are fem!

good post. i used to be a lot more involved in left activism but got more and more detached b/c people just cared only abt looking cool and posting pictures of the protests…some of the newer movements at the universities have their heads screwed on straight i think but the administrations are taking such a hardline stance that they’re fucked

Hi Robin

pseudo-intellectualism is the term you're looking for
lol, pseud

all you seem to care about is being right you big stinky poo poo head!

I don't really care about anything. I'm just shitposting about trannies. Whether or not trannies choose to accept reality is irrelevant.
Sad to have to resort to shit flinging because you know you're wrong.

Progressives tried that in the 70s-90s and all of them became gay 100% of the time tho

They literally never ever did. Nobody has ever tried letting people be gay and fruity. It is always, always about making them be masc and straight or castrating them.

NTA. 4th wave feminism had the exact same problem of wanting to police the speech and behaviour of people that were mostly unrelated to the movement. A idea is closer to a product and the vast majority of people does things because most of their peers do those same things, social media gave some activists the illusion that their ideas were part of the mainstream but that was never true; other thing that came with social media was that a lot of foreigners were allowed to express themselves on the internet so the old "mainstream" wasn't as mainstream as everyone thought.

4th wave feminism DID have the exact same problem, you're right
and nowhere in the outcomes of 4th wave feminism did the progressive collapse we're seeing now happen
so clearly, that's not the problem with the trans rights movement, well identified!

Because white women are the whale not the leech feeding on its belly like trannies are.

There was plenty of medical evidence to support the trans kids thing, they went out of their way to undermine it. And the vast majority of trans people are on the same page about it

There wasn’t tho. Using the old definition of GD there was high desistance. the definition changed and soon after theyfabs and gender shenanigans became an internet meme and Hollywood types started having trans babies. There wasn’t any data (and still isn’t much) on the new breed of trans kid which couldn’t be separated at that point from the cultural social component which saw a 1000% increase overnight. Which is why you have people with so many different positions on it ranging from using blockers, to immediate HRT, to 0 medical gatekeeping, to total and rigorous medical gatekeeping.

The only unifying message the mainstream seemed to be able to muster was like OP said, and exasperated sigh and to tell people “it’s not happening/barely happening stop caring about it”

Nigga I grew up on a “it’s okay for boys to be metrosexual and play with dolls” propaganda. What are you talking about?

why did the trans rights movement fail?

>No leadership

>No unifying message

That's nonsense. Trannies are a GIGA hivemind.
No way in hell does a normal person criticize another normal person and get called a 'traitor'.

This retarded shit only happen to trans community.

why did the trans rights movement fail?

Because most trannies are retarded. Way more retarded than normal retards. Otherwise, why do you think their optics are so bad?

Its not ok for boys to act feminine and look male - trannies is women trying to have feminine men sterilized

It was when I was growing in the 00s. Trannies didn’t even exist yet

Hons and autistics made it fail

Women are much more diverse than trans people and a lot of them didn't wanted to die on some retarded hill like wanting to cancel everything that the fenimist leadership labelled as "problematic"; instead trans people wanted to die on a lot of retarded hills so that's why they're the ones bearing the worst of today backlash.

why do you talk about things you have no knowledge of so brazenly

lol, lmao

you made up every bit of the bullshit you just spewed, or you heard it from fellow bullshitting retards and parroted it mindlessly
either way you're a dribbler

genuinely shut the fuck up

I don’t know what you’re talking about those are just my observations as someone who transitioned in 2010 lmfao. I didn’t even offer an opinion on what is the right course of action because I genuinely don’t know.
sounds like you’ve just been trvked and are chimping out about it

Women have the capacity to throw other women under the bus. They stopped. They stopped doubling down, they stopped being obnoxious, they distanced themselves. Trannies are STILL falling for the same old tricks even now.

I saw it in real time. Yes influencers were as obnoxious as ever but normal women didn't wanted to do anything with shit that they didn't know/didn't care about so nornal people just let 4th wave feminism die and that's it, the status quo won by the other waves remains as the new normal and that's it for them. The trans movement instead went full retarded with the full support of what other people thought was the average trans people.

Kill pedophiles

none of anything you just said ever happened
feminist in-fighting was constant from the 3rd wave onwards, there was only a united front to outsiders (you)
feminist in-fighting might've been happening during the 2nd wave too, but I dont know, I wasn't there

please quit making up history when you're either a zoomer, AMAB or both

4th wave feminism died because after covid the millennials are in their 30s with kids and the zoomers are trans men who have a different banner to flock to

misandry

Disregarded.

youtube.com/watch?v=QhaY1hRDYBg
average feminist group discussing other feminists
any left wing group, really

AMAB feminists have never been part of the in-group
ever
that's not misandry, that's just reality
you don't know what goes on behind closed doors, you dont know about what drives (I hesitate to say "us" because I'm one of the trans men who bailed lol but eh) us

millennials are in their 30s with kids

That's not true for all millenials, there will be 0 discussion about birth-rates if that wasn't the case, what happened is that woman told the rest of the people that they didn't care about the drama surrounding some shitty game made for wankers. I think that both movements have some hidden reality behind their collapse, feminism can't be used to police men in the western world of 2025 because woman have enough power to not give a fuck about what geek men do and their other problems can be solved just educating little girls; the trans movement it's still on the "trans kids exist and need hrt" and the "trans women are women" hill, they already retreated from their homophobic retoric so it's not like they can't retreat to a point were they can recover mainstream supoort.

That's not true for all millenials

yeah obviously not
I'm a millennial

the hyperbole is because I fear immensely that if I hadn't transitioned when I did I would be a mother right now

Feminism really has collapsed though, because everyone I know has settled down in some way and no one organizes marches anymore
I know because the few friends who do still march with me only come out when I invite them to trans rights rallys
oh and marching for abortion rights, something about those really fires up me and all the other trans men who split from feminism enough to organize rallies for feminism

I got distracted and went on a tangent mid-way through reading your post but on reading the other half literally what the fuck are you on about none of anything you said makes a single lick of sense

trans man

posts are just deranged fembrained slop

Holy shmokes

what you identify as fembrained is trans-man brained
turns out all the critics of feminism who said we were just women who wanted to be men tongue in cheek thinking it was some pithy critique were 100% right and only the victim advocacy was really for women
even the general improvement to womens rights can't be said to be by women for women, it was by trans men for trans men and women benefitted as a by-blow

oh and you will never hear more disgusting misogyny than out of the mouth of a radfem talking about average women

What I mean is that feminist learned that intruding in the private life of half of people is a losing strategy, that's also why only radfems remain because their focus are 0.5% of the population, the trans movement didn't learn that lesson and that's why trans people are in the position they are.

Let's see that pussyhole

but it wasn't and they didn't
it was highly successful for the length of time that feminism existed, feminism just stopped existing in a meaningful fashion recently

Because you have 6'3 linebackers crushing womens sports and instead of throwing them under the bus you call either ignore them or call everyone who talks about it a transphobe. And some are grooming kids

Clean up your own ranks

Oh shit. You're just another dumb anglo that thinks that all other women over the world are retarded anglos, complaining that your peers are retarded in another way.

Feminism isn't dead only the 4th wave died but the mainstream is still feminist right now, even if they stopped calling it feminism.

Her dad really gives me the ick. He’s a real living soÿjak

Yeah because no healthy person uses their child as a prop to get attention, more so if they have a life altering condition

what was progressive became the norm, but normies aren't going out to march as progressives
the current day norms we live with are informed by feminism but those who say "I'm a feminist" when questioned mean "I'm the good label" and aren't actually feminists
popular feminism was never really feminism
popular feminism still exists, but it's still not feminism
it's a label used by sheep to bleat to each other that they're part of the herd too

and that opinion is unchanged from a decade ago lol

and the feminist in third world shitholes will one day reach the point that they stop pretending they care about women and not just being a man themselves
just because they're 30 50 or 100 years behind the times doesn't mean it's not the same beat it always was

looked at his TikTok

every thumbnail is pedobaiting

average father of a trans child
most of the dads of my friends are basedjaks

if you look at thumbnails of a normal little girl being a normal little girl and your first thought is "this is pedobait" then I think the problem might be you

self report

It's just a dead give away if someone is excited about having a tranny kid. You know they've groomed. Not that you have to hate your child or anything but if you're a real parent you have to be upset that your kid got unlucky.

being a man themselves

That's only a (you) thing, unless you think that doing "male" work and behaving like a "man" means that you're a man. Every woman can do similar things, or achieve similar outcomes, if they have the right tools at hand.

yeah being superficially male actually matters a whole lot more than masculinity
the masculinity is free, it comes with being a man

Anon cmon. There’s a pedo content algorithm which all of these thumbnails align with. I know because I’m friends with a pedophile and he showed me pedo TikTok

you are a wonderful self advocate and you should always represent yourself in a court of law

I bet you make a lot of posts saying the brain isn’t fully developed until 25

masculinity

I have never meet any AFAB that wants "masculinity" for themselves, I know some people that like the aesthethic for themselves and some that want the experience of being a man for a while out of curiosity but the only people that I know that actually pursue masculinity are gymbros.

that's a big ol leap right there
guilty conscience?

yeah but you're probably a tranny or repressed, not really a reliable expert on the subject

bro is definitely 100% grooming retarded 18-20 year olds
saying that shit unsolicited, damn

oh my hecking science think of the adults

he's fucking crazy for looking at young girls material and call them pedobaits......holy shit

best of luck meeting a retarded 19 year old zoomer who will manage to make you feel loved long enough for you to form a conscience and personality anon
that's how I became a real person

you’d click this thumbnail?

I wont click it coz it looks boring
but you are a pedo if you think this is sexually suggestive

holy pedo brain...

1 in 12 is not "abusing the pedobait algorithm" it's "little girls do the splits because they can, to show off"
it's normal

Nta but I’m a pedophile and I can confirm this shows up in my TikTok feed

yeah it's your algorithm
the assertation that the parent is feeding your algorithm is the bit I say is false
the algorithm is gross, that's obvious to anyone with eyes

The collapse of 4th wave feminism was LITERALLY the first domino in the progressive collapse rarto, the gradual crumbling started with pushback against their speech norms and continued with trannies trying (with more institutional success) to force their own speech norms which further undermined faith in progressivism in the normie.

> niggas

You are not a black guy so why type like this? Is it hard to type guy? See this part of the downfall I told you guys that black “culture” will slowly drip in and we have to get rid of it quickly but no. Also, if you type stuff like that no one should even respond to you but alas there are retards like the person below:

> Against us and not them is media propaganda.

The majority and I mean a lot of trannies are groomers I don't know why you are like this but this is issue number 2.

> yet has the audacity to cry about nebulously defined grooming of trannies

There is a difference between a pedo and a tranny but some trannnies are both so…

We can't build a community when you let fake trannies in and let them openly say things like this:

>We should let all kids know about hrt

>We should force trans education in schools

>There is nothing wrong with being a tranny

>It’s okay to fuck up your future ability to have kids(a major issue with how society functions)

>We should let kids have surgeries that will fuck them up for life

>If more kids transition we won’t look like freaks(major problem, the issue with being a tranny is that we can't have kids, it is mostly not about looks but more about keeping the family generation going oh you didn't know, I blame your parents for not teaching you this)

>We should force both straight men and lesbians to like trans “””women””” and straight women and gay men to like trans men

>We should be able to go into a women's bathroom even if we have a beard and look like a man

>We should be able to go into a women’s changing room even if we look like a man and have a dick

> A dick is not a male genitalia

>A vagina is not a female genitalia

All of this is why we are hated. This will not get worked on instead we will either make this community look like a community for freaks like the people who want to stay young or die out. You did this, and now you are suffering!

They wouldn’t be making them if pedos weren’t watching them. It’s Pavlovian

the collapse of 4th wave feminism has nothing to do with current progressive problems and is entirely to do with women being completely incapable of accomplishing anything without (trans) male leadership

current progressive problems in america are almost entirely to do with neolibs ignoring their voters and being such horrible representatives for their constituents that no one wants to go to the polls to vote for them, even when Trump is the opposition (Hillary was the exact same problem, horrid cunt)
current progressive problems in the UK are mostly to do with TERFs having a cash cow mommy in the form of JKR bailing them out for every failing and funding the campaigns of every TERF politician who breathes
current progressive problems in Australia don't exist; my country doing fine, the collapse of 4th wave feminism hasn't affected trans rights here in the slightest and the only pushback on trans issues was a single state thing that wont have a follow through after a landslide left wing victory in the most recent election

goddamn I love being Australian

Reddit spacing

Yeah that's all you “””people””” can say, you did this to yourself. I will just sit back and watch you trans “””women””” fail.
You destroyed everything but this is your life so have fun, uglies!

well good for you

NTA but that's reddit brain

That's just normal spacing to anyone who doesnt use reddit.

no, he's right, that is actually reddit spacing besides the greentext portion

calls you a fag wokely

gayjacketing trans people is literal insanity though lmao be fr

that is actually reddit spacing besides the greentext portion

lol you dont get it.What if someone’s never used Reddit? I don’t believe 'Reddit spacing' is more popular or widely recognized than just regular spacing even though they’re pretty similar.

You are saying a certain food is called pizza XYZ in your hometown while it is merely known as pizza over the world.

reddit spacing is always gapped, even when beginning a similar thought on a new line
for example when I go to a new sentence without reddit spacing I dont need a gap, this is part of the same paragraph despite being a new sentence

it's only really important to double space when I want to change the topic, this is actually a reddit spaced sentence because it's a continuation of the previous topic but it's been moved to a new paragraph

so basically you're a retarded redditor

lol I don't even know these format you are saying

and it makes no sense to claim ordinary spacing as Reddit spacing kek. Not to mention Reddit doesnt even have a long history compared to normal spacing.

that's because you're a newfag

Nah, Reddit wasn’t on my mind like it is for you

go back to chowing on mcdonalds and antibiotics ridden steak and dying from overworking at 50 goyim

also you're ESL and probably underage
most ESLs break out of the bad English by the time they're 16 (you have to be 16 to post here)

This is not even an argument.

Do you have one? kek

this isnt an argument, you're just a retarded newfag

no argument

then it is just a projection
LMAO

okay you're still a retard

okay you're still presenting zero argument and all projections KEK

a lot of activists primary concern is getting attention for themselves. even if its negative its better then none. The majority of any minority group really just wants to be left alone and not have their rights trampled. For the people that fox news likes to parade around as being representative that would take away their whole purpose so they sabotage the image of the group by being as far outside social norms as possible. It's not even just trans you see the same shit with blacks and latinos and muslims