Blocked

Question

Blocked

So I’m a mtf and politics and philosophy are my areas of interest, but im no expert or anything like that. I was discussing gender critical activists with my ftm friend and he blocked me. I’m a libertarian and support their right to speak, and was trying to bring attention to the violence and intimidation that terfs routinely get.

Don’t get me wrong, im not some terf apologist, even if sometimes we share an opinion about something. I simply respect their right to organise and speak, just as I support trans people’s’ right to do the same. My interest was not whether or not trans people belong ontologically to their desired sex category, but who is allowed to speak on the subject. It rubbed me the wrong way that he claimed gc feminists want us dead but he ignores the death threats these people get just for organising, even in private.

I talked about how activists conflate gc and fascism, so when they call for the death of fascists they’re calling for the death of these women.

I really tried to be as gentle as possible, making it rational and reminding him that feelings aren’t a part of this but he blocked me. We’ve known each other for years and this came as a shock to me. I thought he’d have some critical thinking as he does engineering. Contentious issues like this make me enthusiastic and I was disappointed with the result. Or am I just a huge fat retard?

Women are just too retarded to engage in discussions like that. Their emotions take over.

People tend to be like that, you can't really trust anyone, even if someone is trustworthy at one point in time people inevitably change as does the ways you can engage with them.

victim blaming

low quality b8

You ARE retarded, but only for thinking that you could have an open and honest conversation with a TRA.

Look at the contrast between the women's rights movement, anti-feminine rabid TERFs (separate to women's rights), and the rabid TRA's.

Women's Rights: "Female spaces are for females!"
TERF's: "All males are useless, rapists, and scum!"
TRA's: "Females should be raped and killed or severely beaten!"

You sound insufferable and I'd block you too
Getting death threats is not equivalent to systematic oppression, hatred, extermination and loss of rights
You are a fool for brute forcing your own perspective without taking a step back and realizing how much of a fucking brain dead Muppet you sound like
So ya
You deserved to get blocked

I sound insufferable

that would be the autism and schizotypal

brute forcing perspective

I made sure to do the opposite, I also watch trans content creators but was unsatisfied with their arguments. But I also agree with some of them. I approached it the best I could have, without forfeiting my ideas. I was optimistic about him sharing a view that goes against the prevailing narrative

I would think people who want women dead don't want them to participate in the political system lmao. Maybe neither group should be systematically oppressed. That's what OP was arguing for. Not for the end of death threats, at least as far as I can tell.

I was not aware he was a he had the views of a “TRA”, because he seems passive and doesn’t comment on the world much. I’ve seen terrible takes from conservative and trans people, so I didn’t know what to expect

And stop bending over for everyone like that. You're too smart for it. It makes me sick.

being a libertarian doesnt mean you have to annoy your friends by telling them the people who want them dead have a right to speak

Yes it does when they're fine with arguing up until that point.

nerd

You know, there are things that should not be said to certain people.
You are a very fair person, I appreciate it, but many will not understand you and I do not understand you either, you as a trans. TREF will destroy you

It's like being a Jew who isn't against the Nazis. But you don't deserve to be blocked

It's not about equality, It's good for everyone who cares about the truth, to tolerate their opposition enough to let them speak and hear what they have to say. You can't know if the people you are fighting are in the wrong if you don't let them speak and understand their arguments. It doesn't matter if their nazis, terfs, or jews.

Everyone is entitled to their 1st amendment rights obviously, but anyone who cries about internet death threats is just being a bitch. A 13yo from Guatemala dming you that he’s gonna come your house and execute you for degeneracy o algo poses zero actual threat to anyone.

you have the free choice to shut your mouth without the state getting involved in your personal life

i want misinformed people who intend to take my rights away to organize themselves

Nah this is dumb

In the tribal era, we simply killed those who didn't agree with us.
Now you have weak children clamoring to hear the voices of those who would stomp your skull on the pavement if given the opportunity.
You are fucking pathetic.

preventing them from organising partially led to this mess. the more you silence someone the more staunch the opposition becomes

Yeah right just let them spread more bullshit

i'd find it pretty distasteful having someone explain to me how terfs are oppressed for getting extremely noncredible death threats on twitter while trans people are actually getting murdered for being trans, and people like this actively contributing to a culture which makes that more likely to happen. when they're part of a movement to curtail my rights that is currently quite successful at doing exactly that. but some of them get death threats on twitter lmao. okay.
are death threats based and cool? no. should they be allowed to speak? yes (and they already fucking are even though it IS hate speech). but it's pretty fucking annoying equivocating like that. not all opposition is good or healthy for society. especially in the modern era, when free speech is quickly sending us into a world where people are less informed and yet more polarised, and libertarian faggots like you are not helping one iota with this naive mindset of open and respectful dialogue between sides.

it’s not none credible, its not hard to find activists with signs saying “the only good terf is a dead terf”. when people like this say it’s ok to punch a nazi, then they’re going to have no qualms punching a terf

libertarian faggot

censorship is bad actually

It's smart for the same reason serial killers getting a trial is smart. The process that allows them to speak serves a purpose that outweighs the damage they can do while operating within that process.

When someone decides to argue about a topic they should have their beliefs about that topic met in full regardless of if they are a friend, for the sake of bettering all parties involved. It has nothing to do with the state; it is what any member of any political idealogy should do.

I can shoot you in the face right now because society values ideas more than physical strength. Otherwise we'd be living as animals which is infinitely more pathetic lol.

equivocating like that

What exacrly did they equivocate. Because he didn't say either group was being opressed the same. You know what he argued you even repeated his argument for free speech and agreed. Stop putting words in his mouth because you can't stand the two groups being compared at all. It triggers you emotionally so you need to find something to attack. It is beneath you, you aren't stupid but you are acting like it. Go take a breather.

No letting people indoctrinate others isn't smart

It is smart, because it is part of the rights that let you tell the truth. No saying otherwise in less words doesn't change this. No you can't have the truth without indoctrination. You mist tale the good with the bad.

must take*

you're not saying anything. point to a dead terf (can you?). i'll point to 20 dead trannies. point to a terf being harassed for being a hateful bigot and i'll point to 20 trannies being harassed for existing. the violence against trannies is systemic and real, while the imaginary violence terfs fantasise about happening only reflects their desire for good PR (which you fell for).

b-but free speech! censorship... bad!

please learn to formulate counter-arguments. i just outlined the issues with boundless free speech. look at how radical everyone is becoming. you're a symptom too. though i hope it's just that you're a teenager and haven't outgrown this highly simplistic libertarian stuff. it's funny however that you say death threats are going too far (this can be censored?), while terfs are pretty much doing the crypto version of that (i suppose as long as you're subtle?).
getting death threats is not being silenced you absolute muppet. literally every public figure gets them, welcome to the internet.

more overly simplistic libertarian babble

guys... you do realise you can't market your way out of everything... right?

You put too much faith in The Process. It only serves to put trannies down and raise cissoids up and has been for millenia.

They advocate for stuff that harms people. That's bad. Like bad for society. You can't put together a group that aims to organize stuff to harm people. It's bad

I probably would've accepted my identity sooner if not for fear of being associated with all the batshit insane propaganda that comes out of the trans rights movement. The group that's all about being your authentic self pushes away anybody with a differing opinion. What a travesti.

Ftms are extremely fembrained when it comes to politics and will never pass in that sense. They are stasi-tier overemotional little bitches, no matter which spaces they occupy.

getting death threats is not being silenced

Nobody said this. You're putting words in people's mouths. I dont remember calling ghost busters. Is silenced in the room with us right now? Teddy? How many shutter islands am I holding up?

That's not true because without it we would be destroyed. Because without faith in the system all you have is faith in humans. You need rules that slow people down from acting like apes long enough to change their evil nature. And these rules must be relatively indiscriminate because if change is not slow humans will revolt and destroy those rules. That is the purpose of something like free speech.

Yep they sure do and it is bad but not letting them do that in a controlled manner is worse. See above. That is also why the left is receiving lashback currently from the right. The left went too hard on social justice shit and now the right is trying to destroy the system. The system is what is stopping them from killing you trannies, you cannot smash it to fight back. Or we will destroy eachother.

Everyone got it? We good?

If Nazism could be outdebated the holocaust wouldn't have happened. I support free speech rights for everyone but it's very easy to understand why your friend was upset, it's like if you talked about supporting a hypothetical right for news stations to invite neo-Nazis to regurgitate Goebbels on TV to your Jewish friend.

Similarly I don't agree with the overt hostility (and how rapidly desires for murder get thrown around on both sides), but only one of us has the state increasingly worming its way into our lives. Basically you chose abstract but commendable principles and applied them to something that is very personal to your friend because of the group we share. They wanted you to understand why they don't really care for the rights of people who think they need to make babies and milk as an ftm.

this idea you have overestimated the average humans intelligence, it won't help find the truth, it only muddys the water more. 90% of people don't have the time or ability to decipher the true from false hence why misinformation is so powerful and indoctrination to cults is easy. another thing, most people don't like feeling dumb, so if you present them truth after they already believe misinfo they get defensive, it takes a lot of work with deprogramming skills to be able to change that

So it's better to let them do it? It's better to let them harm people than it is to prevent them from doing harm? Alright

wdym we can't destroy the system of government for my personal idea of justice!?

Yes bruh that's called long term wellfare it's what being an adult is and it's the only way to run a country. You're too idealistic for politics. You could be 100% right but politics is about power which includes dealing with people who are 100% wrong. It is not about justice you stupid little kid.

The holocaust did not come from nowhere, it's always a system mishandling of people's mental health which believe it or not can only be addressed when you hear their stupid ideas out. Changing the minds of nazis is not the benifit of free speech in it's totality, it's also to prevent nazis, make sure we are not just as bad as nazis, and contain them.

I agree with most of this so I haven't overestimated human intelligence. It's just that it's unrealistic and dangerous to impose truth over humans so the best we can do is allow them to muddy the waters in a controlled space. I am basically making the same argument over and over, for politics, what is good is not what is ideal. It's what's gives us the best chance of survival with the tools we have. And you cannot force the truth on people. There will be backlash.

Yeah right all the terfs are allowed to talk about politics but you're telling me I'm not cut out for it

You're too idealistic for, good, politics. Wait what??? No takebacksies? FUCK. You really got me man.

I'm too idealistic cause I said it's bad when people get together for a bad cause lmao

You're too idealistic because when you don't understand bad is necessary.

Oh so now it's actually necessary to harm trans people

Yes it is. I'm so sorry you need to hear others out and that that hurts.

For the record it's necessary to harm trans people so that you can let terfs continue to harm trans people

Okay? In the same way I advocated for and you argued against. Broaden the group as much as you want, don't imply any harm other than free speech was advocated for tonight.

I don't even need to imply

people hate minorities because of systematic mental health institution failures

I just do not understand this viewpoint. Even going back to your original point where you're trying to paint sympathy for the devil because people tell TERFs kys on twitter, better mental health services do not help that and neither does the free speech already enjoyed by trannies, terfs, and nazis, what kind of point are you trying to make?

Yes obviously bruh because it'd be wrong. Otherwise point out where I advocated for that.

inb4 I don't even need to tell you why I don't need to imply

It's in plain sight what you were advocating for that what I mean by I don't have to imply anything dumbass

I didn't say mental health institutions alone prevent nazism. Mental health in any country is decided mostly by your homelife which is decided by a lot of things, because culture is. There isn't any single institution to blame, there are just things that raise the quality of life so that people are less mentally ill and less susceptible to being told by a dictator they need to start burning jews to fix their lives. Things like freedom of speech. Nobody cares if you are correct that nazism is evil. They care that it feels like an escape from their mental issues. So you mist raise their quality of life. That is what I mean by nazis didn't come out of nowhere.

Predictable.

kay